The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread

119 posts · 2008-07-16 12:54:31 to 2009-01-20 14:43:02

#36300480615 07/20/2008 21:18:22 Re:Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
Br0ck wrote:
Though I did have the same problem with it I had with "Begins", I can't stand Bale's "Batman voice".


Y'know, that is the one thing I'd address. It just reeked of "I'M BATMAN NOW, THIS DEFINITELY ISN'T THE OVEREMPHASIZED BASS TONE OF BRUCE WAYNE'S NATURAL SPEAKING VOICE!"

I would've thought that with all that Lucius had designed him, he could've worked up a voice changer.

#36300480619 07/20/2008 21:41:15 Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread

Awesome movie! I was surprised that they went all the way with Two Face. I just thought they were going to set him up for the third movie. I think we all were a little shocked when he died. Same with Rachel dying. I didn't think they would kill her off.

Ledger deserves AT LEAST a nomination for an Oscar. The way he played the Joker was so great. 90% of his portrayal was in the movements and body gesture. And he was stellar!

Everyone reacted about the same way to everything.

I think the best parts of the movie were all with the Joker. One was definitely the Joker's magic trick. The second was Joker clapping for Gordon. And the third was Joker walking away from the Hospital and messing around with the bomb trigger.

imax wrote:




Best line of the movie...

Joker: Im like a dog chaseing tires, if I ever got my hands on one I wouldnt know what to do with it!


And that it was!

I think I'm going to go see this movie again tomorrow.


#36300480621 07/20/2008 21:51:16 Re:Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
Mercio wrote:

Awesome movie! I was surprised that they went all the way with Two Face. I just thought they were going to set him up for the third movie. I think we all were a little shocked when he died.



Did he die?  I was under the impression that Harvey Dent was dead, not Two Face.
#36300480625 07/20/2008 22:14:30 Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
I'm pretty sure the fall knocked it (the life) out of him. Batman, wearing all that razmataz, still had quite the blow into him when he landed.

If he were still alive, they would have sent him to a pyschiatrist instead of do all that funeral jazz.

I'm kinda hoping for a Catwoman / Harley Quinn / Penguin mix-up for the third movie.
#36300480626 07/20/2008 22:20:25 Re:Re:Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
HostileIntention wrote:
Mercio wrote:

Awesome movie! I was surprised that they went all the way with Two Face. I just thought they were going to set him up for the third movie. I think we all were a little shocked when he died.



Did he die?  I was under the impression that Harvey Dent was dead, not Two Face.
yeah i think they wanted to keep it quite that Dent was Two face cause of how much Dent Ment to Gotham and the Citizens and i just got the soundtrack last night it is a Darn Good Soundtrack as well i started thinkin to last night how everyone was thinking what a odd cast Ledger would be for the joker and he doesnt seem right to play him now everyone is saying including myself that he should win a oscar for his performance its just amazing how he did that role
#36300480682 07/21/2008 06:03:08 Re:Re:Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
HostileIntention wrote:
Mercio wrote:

Awesome movie! I was surprised that they went all the way with Two Face. I just thought they were going to set him up for the third movie. I think we all were a little shocked when he died.

Did he die?  I was under the impression that Harvey Dent was dead, not Two Face.
Oh, he's dead...thus completes the tragedy of his character, Mr. Intention. If that is your real name.
#36300480796 07/21/2008 12:25:10 Re:Re:Re:Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
shinpseudo wrote:
HostileIntention wrote:
Mercio wrote:

Awesome movie! I was surprised that they went all the way with Two Face. I just thought they were going to set him up for the third movie. I think we all were a little shocked when he died.

Did he die?  I was under the impression that Harvey Dent was dead, not Two Face.
Oh, he's dead...thus completes the tragedy of his character, Mr. Intention. If that is your real name.
He's not dead.
#36300480805 07/21/2008 13:08:25 Re:Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
ZippyTheSquirrel wrote:
I'm pretty sure the fall knocked it (the life) out of him. Batman, wearing all that razmataz, still had quite the blow into him when he landed.

If he were still alive, they would have sent him to a pyschiatrist instead of do all that funeral jazz.

I'm kinda hoping for a Catwoman / Harley Quinn / Penguin mix-up for the third movie.

This is what I am dreading..while ledger did a good joker..this path will lead us to another crappy series that was the 2nd half of the first batman movies....as much as I loved this one..Batman Begins was still a better movie ...some of the best characters in this or any comic are not the fanboy ones ;p
#36300480809 07/21/2008 13:21:21 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
Crowlos wrote:
shinpseudo wrote:
HostileIntention wrote:
Mercio wrote:

Awesome movie! I was surprised that they went all the way with Two Face. I just thought they were going to set him up for the third movie. I think we all were a little shocked when he died.

Did he die?  I was under the impression that Harvey Dent was dead, not Two Face.
Oh, he's dead...thus completes the tragedy of his character, Mr. Intention. If that is your real name.
He's not dead.
If he's alive, the entire ending of the movie makes no sense. Why are Gordon and his kid leisurely chit-chatting about Batman when they should be calling a paramedic for Two-Face? Why would Batman tell Gordon to say he's the one who killed the corrupt cops, if Harvey/Two-Face will just say he's the one who did it once he's recovered?
#36300480825 07/21/2008 14:20:57 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
shinpseudo wrote:
Crowlos wrote:
shinpseudo wrote:
HostileIntention wrote:
Mercio wrote:

Awesome movie! I was surprised that they went all the way with Two Face. I just thought they were going to set him up for the third movie. I think we all were a little shocked when he died.

Did he die?  I was under the impression that Harvey Dent was dead, not Two Face.
Oh, he's dead...thus completes the tragedy of his character, Mr. Intention. If that is your real name.
He's not dead.
If he's alive, the entire ending of the movie makes no sense. Why are Gordon and his kid leisurely chit-chatting about Batman when they should be calling a paramedic for Two-Face? Why would Batman tell Gordon to say he's the one who killed the corrupt cops, if Harvey/Two-Face will just say he's the one who did it once he's recovered?


No one stays dead in comics. They coulda just told the public he was dead so that he woulda have "died a hero" and would inspire more good that way.

I'm sure they left the movie the way it was on purpose. That way people can think what ever they want to think. It works boths ways.

#36300480873 07/21/2008 16:29:22 Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
Just got home, loved it.  The one thing that annoyed me was the cop in the Paddywagon next to Gordon when they were transporting Dent.  He wouldn't shut up.
#36300480902 07/21/2008 17:27:27 Re:Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
Eleutherophobia wrote:
Just got home, loved it.  The one thing that annoyed me was the cop in the Paddywagon next to Gordon when they were transporting Dent.  He wouldn't shut up.
He was annoying but I think he was there to get the audience thinking the driver was in with the Joker.

#36300480976 07/21/2008 21:14:08 Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
well it looks like Dark Knight contunies to impress it actaully surpassed Sundays estamates wich were 155 it actaully  bought in 158million after the final numbers came in earlier this afternoon
#36300481594 07/23/2008 19:21:08 Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
Cinematic Perfection. Or, if that's impossible, the closest thing to.

The best movie in years, if not ever. It redefined the boundaries of 'Good and Evil' and demonstrated that its very well possible to throw things into chaos with a little well thought out anarchy, as he says.

The theatre I was in burst into applause during the credits, as I'm sure many did. And deservedly so.
#36300481598 07/23/2008 19:27:40 Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
yeah mine did to and now its also set the record for fastest 200 million movie in 5 days i think this will be possibly in the top 5 hopefully top spot in the highest grossing movies in us
#36300481608 07/23/2008 19:42:14 Re:Re:Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
Neoteny wrote:
Br0ck wrote:
Though I did have the same problem with it I had with "Begins", I can't stand Bale's "Batman voice".


Y'know, that is the one thing I'd address. It just reeked of "I'M BATMAN NOW, THIS DEFINITELY ISN'T THE OVEREMPHASIZED BASS TONE OF BRUCE WAYNE'S NATURAL SPEAKING VOICE!"

I would've thought that with all that Lucius had designed him, he could've worked up a voice changer.

YRUTRYN2KLLME?!
Starschwar
#36300481640 07/23/2008 21:08:10 Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
Whoo, bootlegs on Youtube! Man, I gotta see this movie again. *browses Youtube for moar bootlegs*
#36300481815 07/24/2008 12:36:30 Re:Re:Re:Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
CPT_Starschwar wrote:
Neoteny wrote:
Br0ck wrote:
Though I did have the same problem with it I had with "Begins", I can't stand Bale's "Batman voice".


Y'know, that is the one thing I'd address. It just reeked of "I'M BATMAN NOW, THIS DEFINITELY ISN'T THE OVEREMPHASIZED BASS TONE OF BRUCE WAYNE'S NATURAL SPEAKING VOICE!"

I would've thought that with all that Lucius had designed him, he could've worked up a voice changer.

YRUTRYN2KLLME?!

I think that made my day. Great video
#36300481901 07/24/2008 17:12:39 Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
Just got back from seeing it for the first time.

10/10

Loved the Jokers magic trick.

4 8 15 16 23 42
#36300481902 07/24/2008 17:17:32 Re:Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
odj wrote:
Just got back from seeing it for the first time.

10/10

Loved the Jokers magic trick.
yeah I just went and saw it today aswell and I would agree.
#36300482431 07/26/2008 22:20:45 Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
Seeing this for the second time tonight in IMAX was a sweet experience. The sequences that were IMAX-specific were unreal: the opening bank heist, any city skyline-based overhead shot, the tunnel car chase. The "normal" segments, in contrast, seemed fuzzy by comparison. In any event, lots of people dressed up like the Joker at this showing. Only one guy was in full Batman garb, and he ended up riding the same train home with us. He probably could have taken at least the cowl off at that point.
#36300482446 07/26/2008 23:33:44 Re:Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
shinpseudo wrote:
...He probably could have taken at least the cowl off at that point.
He must have been a TRUE FAN. 
#36300482452 07/27/2008 00:11:30 Re:Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
Cadsuane wrote:
My friend reckons Lao will be the Penguin in the next movie...
My friend is crazy.
Lao was at the top of the giant pile of money that the Joker burnt up.
#36300482508 07/27/2008 11:37:19 Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
well the Dark knight has reached 300 Million plus in 10 days it is now the highest grossing film of 2008 and will set to pass Starwars Episode IV as number 2 in the top 10 domestic box office records
#36300482519 07/27/2008 12:28:58 Re:Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
ZippyTheSquirrel wrote:
I'm pretty sure the fall knocked it (the life) out of him. Batman, wearing all that razmataz, still had quite the blow into him when he landed.

If he were still alive, they would have sent him to a pyschiatrist instead of do all that funeral jazz.

I'm kinda hoping for a Catwoman / Harley Quinn / Penguin mix-up for the third movie.
Keep in mind, Batman had a bullet in his stomach.
#36300482523 07/27/2008 12:44:51 Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
Another subtlety I loved was how the Joker had his hostage read a note on tape which he then sent to the cops/media and the Joker couldn't help himself, so he read along with the hostage like an annoying friend at the movies spoiling your fun but having lots of fun himself.
Two years of living the dream... and interpreting it! ~Variel
#36300482526 07/27/2008 12:52:27 Re:Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
Vesuveus wrote:
Another subtlety I loved was how the Joker had his hostage read a note on tape which he then sent to the cops/media and the Joker couldn't help himself, so he read along with the hostage like an annoying friend at the movies spoiling your fun but having lots of fun himself.
Precisely. This is one of the subtleties that made the Joker so memorable and fantastic. My favourite of his numerous, numerous subtleties, is the mouthing of a shocked "Six?!" when he's in the interrogation room. But in general, every little touch the Joker had made him brilliant.

I also have to agree that the film's Soundtrack (which I am listening to pretty much non-stop) is a major driving force for the movie. Like HostileIntention said, one of my favourite parts was the high siren than announced the Joker's ominous entrance time and time again. And what Joker delivers when that ominous siren is done, always delivers.

#36300482528 07/27/2008 12:57:50 Re:Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
Vesuveus wrote:
Another subtlety I loved was how the Joker had his hostage read a note on tape which he then sent to the cops/media and the Joker couldn't help himself, so he read along with the hostage like an annoying friend at the movies spoiling your fun but having lots of fun himself.


Wanna know what made that scene even better? Having followed that guy's escapades in Gotham for the last few months. That just raised the realism and relativity of that scene to an *ahem* insane level.

#36300482566 07/27/2008 16:12:56 Re:Re:Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
Eleutherophobia wrote:
ZippyTheSquirrel wrote:
I'm pretty sure the fall knocked it (the life) out of him. Batman, wearing all that razmataz, still had quite the blow into him when he landed.

If he were still alive, they would have sent him to a pyschiatrist instead of do all that funeral jazz.

I'm kinda hoping for a Catwoman / Harley Quinn / Penguin mix-up for the third movie.
Keep in mind, Batman had a bullet in his stomach.
Batman had on kevlar-laced body armor. Two-Face had on a half-burned suit for a 4-story fall.
#36300482589 07/27/2008 18:05:52 Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread

another subtlety of Joker related scenes. When he has the new reporter read the hostage note, if you notice, when he let's go of the pages, they are falling up.

He was holding that guy upside down, that's a nice touch

#36300482602 07/27/2008 19:32:11 Re:Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
Shadow Griever wrote:

another subtlety of Joker related scenes. When he has the new reporter read the hostage note, if you notice, when he let's go of the pages, they are falling up.

He was holding that guy upside down, that's a nice touch


That's a good pick up! The finally scene when Bats had Joker hanging upside down, the camera had them both right-side-up, as if they are both face cards of a deck...

One thing I heard in the movie that I had NO idea about was Alfred's stories about the jungle. I think he was with a group of people who were regulating the jungle (south america) and one group was demanding gems from everyone else, but one guy was stealing the gems regardless that everyone was suffering because they didn;t have the gems to trade. Eventually they "burned the jungle down" to catch him.

I have never read anything about Alfred's past in any comics. Does anyone know anything about that?

Two years of living the dream... and interpreting it! ~Variel
#36300482609 07/27/2008 19:48:39 Re:Re:Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
Vesuveus wrote:

I have never read anything about Alfred's past in any comics. Does anyone know anything about that?

He's had several background tellings over the years. I think mostly in the very early iteration, he was a former intelligence agent. Later, it was rewritten that he worked for the British royal family and the Waynes hired him from there.
#36300482612 07/27/2008 20:04:30 Re:Re:Re:Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
shinpseudo wrote:
Vesuveus wrote:

I have never read anything about Alfred's past in any comics. Does anyone know anything about that?

He's had several background tellings over the years. I think mostly in the very early iteration, he was a former intelligence agent. Later, it was rewritten that he worked for the British royal family and the Waynes hired him from there.
He does have a medical/military background in the comics. They never really explored it in depth to my knowledge but I think thats on purpose to leave your imagination open as to what he is actually capable of.
#36300483449 07/29/2008 15:48:09 Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
Alfred Pennyworth

#36300484044 07/31/2008 14:32:02 Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread

So, i just watched it for the second time last night, and I started trying to find all the little jokes The Joker made during the course of the movie. Some of them were twisted, so that only he would find them funny, but they were still jokes or gags. Here's the ones I thought were hilarious, but I'd love to see if anyone found any others.

*extreme spoiler warning*

Being one of the masked bank robbers to hear what the other guys thought. 

Telling the other bank robber the bank manager was out of ammo.

"Nooo, I kill the bus driver."

Getting away from a bank robbery in a school bus.

Stealing a little of the mob's money as part of the plan to steal it all.

Custom made clothing - jacket and vest made from card table felt, shirt print is of the back of standard poker cards

Taunting the mob bosses with "Like the suit? You should, you bought it."

The 'you'll poke your eye out' magic trick.

"I'm not crazy. I'm not crazy" (Crazy people can't tell if they're crazy)

"Now let's not blow this out of proportion." (as he shows the grenades in his jacket)

Having Gamble's men 'try out' for a 'position' in the gang.

"Good evening, Ladies and Gentlemen. We are tonight's entertainment."

Eating the hors d'ouvres loudly and tossing the champagne out of the glass before 'drinking' from it.

"Where's Harvey Dent?" (Spoken in a 'gentlemenly' accent in room full of rich people)

Grooming himself when approaching Rachel.

"Poor choice of words!"

Killing the commissioner and then replacing his honor guard.

Planting the joker card in the Judge's file, then when she ignores it, he fills her car with joker cards that go flying all over when the car explodes.

Obstructing the path of the police escort for Harvey Dent with a burning fire truck. (I can almost hear him saying "It's a fire truck! Get it!? HAHAHA"

Attacking the convoy from a circus truck.

The circus truck says "Laughter is the best medicine." but that wasn't ironic enough for the Joker, so he spray painted an "S" in front of "Laughter".

"I like this job."

Clapping for Gordon's promotion.

Lying about who was at which address, and having both Batman and Harvey listen as Rachel died.

"I want my phone call."

*silently mouths*"Six?"

Wearing a Harvey Dent campaign sticker while in Harvey's hospital room.

"I'm just like a dog chasing cars; I wouldn't know what to do with it if I caught one."

Convincing Harvey Dent, a man who stands for justice and fairness, that there is no plan, only anarchy.

"I'm only burning my half [of the pile of money]. You can do whatever you want with your half."

Switching the hostages with the thugs.

"This is where the irresistable force meets the immovable object" (A logical impossibility; if the force is irresistable, then...)

*End spoilers*

I'm sure there are more, those are just the ones i could remember.

#36300484057 07/31/2008 15:06:26 Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread

Sitting next to Harvey in the hospital bed, dressed as a female nurse and just saying "Hi"

And his sarcastic laugh as he walked into the mob meeting and saying "And I thought my jokes were bad"

Darkhawk's Gallery | Section 9's Past | Metal Gear?! It's already active?!
There can only be room for one Snake, and one Big Boss!
#36300484098 07/31/2008 18:01:40 Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
I went to see Batman earlier today...  halfway through, the projector craps out and some guy comes out saying, "Go to the front desk for your refunds, projector died."  There were a lot of pissed off people in that room..
#36300487287 08/10/2008 11:25:06 Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
The Dark Knight Has passed about 5 movies in the all time box office sales this weekend and is now number 3 all time  its right  behind Starwars and Titanic

oh and it was also number 1 again 4 weeks in a row now
#36300487290 08/10/2008 11:38:43 Re:Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
nubious81 wrote:
The Dark Knight Has passed about 5 movies in the all time box office sales this weekend and is now number 3 all time  its right  behind Starwars and Titanic

oh and it was also number 1 again 4 weeks in a row now

Yep. Titanic took them 39 weeks to get to $600 Million while Darkknight is only at its 4th week and its going to be at 3rd place... With that I hope it surpasses Titanic in the coming weeks. So Jim can start making movies once more...

#36300487293 08/10/2008 11:53:33 Re:Re:Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
mantra777 wrote:
nubious81 wrote:
The Dark Knight Has passed about 5 movies in the all time box office sales this weekend and is now number 3 all time  its right  behind Starwars and Titanic

oh and it was also number 1 again 4 weeks in a row now

Yep. Titanic took them 39 weeks to get to $600 Million while Darkknight is only at its 4th week and its going to be at 3rd place... With that I hope it surpasses Titanic in the coming weeks. So Jim can start making movies once more...
actaully james cameron has a movie coming out this summer its suposed to be a big scifi movie  called avatar i think anyway its suposed to have new specail effects and animation we have never seen before
#36300487346 08/10/2008 15:32:34 Re:Re:Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
mantra777 wrote:
nubious81 wrote:
The Dark Knight Has passed about 5 movies in the all time box office sales this weekend and is now number 3 all time  its right  behind Starwars and Titanic

oh and it was also number 1 again 4 weeks in a row now

Yep. Titanic took them 39 weeks to get to $600 Million while Darkknight is only at its 4th week and its going to be at 3rd place... With that I hope it surpasses Titanic in the coming weeks. So Jim can start making movies once more...
also wasnt Titanic re released in theaters once?  I think that had a lot to do with it.   I dont think it reall break titanic, but it will definitly beat Star wars.   GOD i hope it does beat star wars... I got this inner hatred of george lucas as of the past few years for some reason.
#36300488374 08/13/2008 14:01:08 Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
acording to hdroom.com Dark Knight is slated for blu ray and dvd Dec 9th good news im sure this will help blu ray players and ps3s through the holiday season

http://www.thehdroom.com/news/The_D...December_9/3277
#36300488380 08/13/2008 14:17:43 Re:Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
nubious81 wrote:
acording to hdroom.com Dark Knight is slated for blu ray and dvd Dec 9th good news im sure this will help blu ray players and ps3s through the holiday season

http://www.thehdroom.com/news/The_D...December_9/3277

Hmmmm  and possibly a Dark knight/ps3 bundle?     nah...  that wont happen since its a WB movie, but that woulda been cool.
#36300488382 08/13/2008 14:21:26 Re:Re:Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
imax wrote:
nubious81 wrote:
acording to hdroom.com Dark Knight is slated for blu ray and dvd Dec 9th good news im sure this will help blu ray players and ps3s through the holiday season

http://www.thehdroom.com/news/The_D...December_9/3277

Hmmmm  and possibly a Dark knight/ps3 bundle?     nah...  that wont happen since its a WB movie, but that woulda been cool.
expect the next ps3 blu ray bundel to be FFVII AC  that comes out in march
#36300489156 08/17/2008 17:18:14 Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
I saw Dark Knight again over in imax even better the second time around on Friday and its Now Number 2 on all time box office at 471Mill i think WB will keep this in theaters as long as possible if it hits over 500 this coming  weekend to beat titanic
#36300489695 08/19/2008 11:32:19 Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
ha!   when I saw this I had to share it...


#36300489712 08/19/2008 12:18:04 Re:Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
imax wrote:
ha!   when I saw this I had to share it...


lmao Epic lets see that as a happy meal toy SMILEY heh
#36300495216 09/04/2008 21:56:00 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:The Dark Knight *spoilers* Thread
imax wrote:
shinpseudo wrote:
Crowlos wrote:
shinpseudo wrote:
HostileIntention wrote:
Mercio wrote:

Awesome movie! I was surprised that they went all the way with Two Face. I just thought they were going to set him up for the third movie. I think we all were a little shocked when he died.

Did he die?  I was under the impression that Harvey Dent was dead, not Two Face.
Oh, he's dead...thus completes the tragedy of his character, Mr. Intention. If that is your real name.
He's not dead.
If he's alive, the entire ending of the movie makes no sense. Why are Gordon and his kid leisurely chit-chatting about Batman when they should be calling a paramedic for Two-Face? Why would Batman tell Gordon to say he's the one who killed the corrupt cops, if Harvey/Two-Face will just say he's the one who did it once he's recovered?


No one stays dead in comics. They coulda just told the public he was dead so that he woulda have "died a hero" and would inspire more good that way.

I'm sure they left the movie the way it was on purpose. That way people can think what ever they want to think. It works boths ways.

Btw: dead.