Punch Reversal Catch Slam

10 Re-Use Timer : Interlock Accuracy Boost 20 : 40 IS Cost : D.P.S. 21 : 100% chance of powerless.

The only other move that has a 100% chance to powerless (without states) that I know of is Zone of Powerless/Vector which is in hacker.

Also, the only other move in operative tree that has a 100% powerless chance is Freedom to Joints which is a sneak attack.

This move can be used technically every 3 rounds, and from what I've experienced has a high chance of going through. One move that can be compared slightly to this is Pistol Barrage from the Duelist tree, which has very similar stats except for one thing.

10 Re-Use Timer : Interlock Accuracy Boost 15 : 30 IS Cost : D.P.S. 18 : 40% chance of powerless.

60% chance is a big difference, so why exactly was PRCS made to be so much more powerful than the other move? There's no other ability that I can think of that can be used in interlock so often that has a 100% chance of powerless without a state, probably because there isn't one, not to mention spammed to hell which is annoying because when it does go through, often in interlock you have a move queued, and thus you become powerless'd and even though your move didn't even get a chance to roll you just lose IS regardless.

I mean, everything else is fine about it. But I honestly don't see the problem with lowering the powerless chance to 40% or 50%.

THREAD HIJACK

Reminds me that Full Auto Redux shouldn't be an out-of-interlock move.

In before rabble rabble.

60% chance is a big difference, so why exactly was PRCS made to be so much more powerful than the other move?

Ballak wrote:

60% chance is a big difference, so why exactly was PRCS made to be so much more powerful than the other move?

Because it's a higher level move, and higher level moves, by design, are better.

Though I do agree that if you have a move cued up and are made powerless you shouldn't lose the IS. But that bug shouldn't really justify nerfing PRCS.

Freedom to Joints is a very high level move, but how many people do you see use that? Honestly, the level of abilities don't mean that much. Wrist Throw is a high level move and is outdamaged by Sidekick Combo let alone plenty of other ability, and the IS cost behind the move is so costly for average damage that no one ever uses it. Making a move that has a high chance to hit, along with a GUARANTEED powerless WITHOUT a state, is ridiculous even if it is a high level move.

Also, I understand that you're like a career Hacker, so like with Logic Bomb/Barrage etc., yes in a way, what you say is true, but in the operative tree a lot of moves are used simultaneously (Hell I use Iron Guard and Overhand Smash occasionally) and thus while some may do more damage/effects than others, I believe that they should be balanced and not simply just, "SINCE IT IS LEVEL 48 ABILITY, YOU SHOULD BE GIVEN GOD MODE AND ROCKET LAUNCHERS THAT NOT ONLY SHOOT ROCKETS, BUT LAZORS."

I see no problem with FAR due to the fact that it takes so long to complete and it requires a state to use.

Let's all use Ghost strike, it's a much better move than Leg Sweep.

Right?

Zudrag wrote:

Let's all use Ghost strike, it's a much better move than Leg Sweep.

Right?

Ghost strike allows you to stay invisible after using it, that's the big advantage of it and that's why it costs more IS. But for a more simple example, lets compare Drop Kick and Punt.

Drop Kick: 20 IS, 52 DPS, no acc bonus. 2.6 DPS per 1 IS.
Punt: 40 IS, 170 DPS, +80 CT Bonus. 4.25 DPS per 1 IS.

Now if you ask me Punt, The higher level ability, is a heck of a lot better than Drop kick.

I see people use Freedom to Joints rather often when fighting hackers actually. PRCS is not a god mode attack, if it was so God like (As you imply) every MA would be spamming it all over the place, yet they aren't.

Who the *CENSORED* even loads Freedom To Joints? Like I said, like Hacker, the Stealth attack abilities are tiered just like the hacker abilities. MA is a complete different story. A lot of abilities are on different timers, thus using them in different times regardless of their level is very common.

MKTs being the highest base accuracy class in the game, and hackers having dozens of interlock penalties, the only thing you'd have to worry is about DoTs and that Viral Accuracy Boost that lasts like 2-3 rounds in interlock.

I'm not sure where you've been, Pylat, but I see PRCS happen all the time. Anyone who doesn't use it in a full MA load out is seriously missing out. 

I'm well aware of how timers work for the different classes. The simple fact remains that PRCS is a high level ability. It's Damage is very low for the IS you pay, the big advantage of it is the powerless, which is only 1 round of IL. Granted the bug which means you lose your IS anyway does make it annoying, but that bug is not justification to nerf the ability.

The devs even say that they use an equation to calculate abilities based on various aspects of it compared to the abilities level. Wrist throw has a very high IS cost cause the chance to stun is very good. I'm not saying that the equation is perfect, but it's what the devs work with.

If you find you're completely ruined in IL cause someone can powerless you then you should probably work on your loadout and try find ways to counter PRCS.

FAR is friggin' impossible to pull off. Crappy accuracy with dual SMGs piled on short range piled on long-arse "cast" time piled on again more crappy accuracy means I'm lucky if I pull off more than one in every three shots, or my target has crappy ballistic defense. In that case, I better hope they have suckish ballistic resistance as well or I'm never doing more than 800 damage, 600 if they see me coming and load up on resistance (if they just don't move out of range like everyone else). On my good days, around 1.2k+ damage with frequent states and hits.

But I'm not here for FAR. For PRCS (lulz perks), I would support a drop in DPS to 11 to balance out its strengths. If I absolutely hated the move (which I don't - I don't see MAs use that on me all that much) I would also demand it require the Staggered state.

Pylat wrote:

I'm well aware of how timers work for the different classes. The simple fact remains that PRCS is a high level ability. It's Damage is very low for the IS you pay, the big advantage of it is the powerless, which is only 1 round of IL. Granted the bug which means you lose your IS anyway does make it annoying, but that bug is not justification to nerf the ability.

The devs even say that they use an equation to calculate abilities based on various aspects of it compared to the abilities level. Wrist throw has a very high IS cost cause the chance to stun is very good. I'm not saying that the equation is perfect, but it's what the devs work with.

If you find you're completely ruined in IL cause someone can powerless you then you should probably work on your loadout and try find ways to counter PRCS.

Please tell me an efficient way to counter someone while you're getting powerless'd spammed?

Ballak wrote:

Pylat wrote:

I'm well aware of how timers work for the different classes. The simple fact remains that PRCS is a high level ability. It's Damage is very low for the IS you pay, the big advantage of it is the powerless, which is only 1 round of IL. Granted the bug which means you lose your IS anyway does make it annoying, but that bug is not justification to nerf the ability.

The devs even say that they use an equation to calculate abilities based on various aspects of it compared to the abilities level. Wrist throw has a very high IS cost cause the chance to stun is very good. I'm not saying that the equation is perfect, but it's what the devs work with.

If you find you're completely ruined in IL cause someone can powerless you then you should probably work on your loadout and try find ways to counter PRCS.

Please tell me an efficient way to counter someone while you're getting powerless'd spammed?

Sit on grab/block and wait for them to *CENSORED* all their IS away cause they can't do much damage with it. Failing that change to grab/block every 4th round after you learn the timing to their PRCS.

Did I say you sit on grab or block the whole time? No. So stop putting words in my mouth and then arguing against a point I never made.

Actually on grab or block you get a whopping 30%-50% bonus to defense, which is far better than the CT bonus from special moves. Meanwhile your opponent is doing a massive 200-300 damage with PRCS and losing mounds of IS. If they are spamming it they will use it every 4th round. So just change to block every fourth round.

You seem to work under the assumption that it will hit EVERY time they use it, which is untrue. With hacker stats on block I manage to stop about half the PRCS's that come my way.

Since aikido has generally buffs and effects and low damage I think just lower PRCS as Zippy said. It's a countermeasure for those who use aikido. Maybe increase the reuse timer to 14 seconds so it can't be spammed. Similar ability in the kung fu section is butterfly which also rarely misses and has a chance to confuse (worse than powerless in IL) and in karate wrist throw (which is yet to be balanced), which has a chance to stun. 40 IS for low dps and 100% powerless seems all fair to me (I haven't used that move in over a half year).

Pylat wrote:

I'm well aware of how timers work for the different classes. The simple fact remains that PRCS is a high level ability. It's Damage is very low for the IS you pay, the big advantage of it is the powerless, which is only 1 round of IL. Granted the bug which means you lose your IS anyway does make it annoying, but that bug is not justification to nerf the ability.

The devs even say that they use an equation to calculate abilities based on various aspects of it compared to the abilities level. Wrist throw has a very high IS cost cause the chance to stun is very good. I'm not saying that the equation is perfect, but it's what the devs work with.

If you find you're completely ruined in IL cause someone can powerless you then you should probably work on your loadout and try find ways to counter PRCS.

Please tell me an efficient way to counter someone while you're getting powerless'd spammed?

Ballak wrote:

Pylat wrote:

I'm well aware of how timers work for the different classes. The simple fact remains that PRCS is a high level ability. It's Damage is very low for the IS you pay, the big advantage of it is the powerless, which is only 1 round of IL. Granted the bug which means you lose your IS anyway does make it annoying, but that bug is not justification to nerf the ability.

The devs even say that they use an equation to calculate abilities based on various aspects of it compared to the abilities level. Wrist throw has a very high IS cost cause the chance to stun is very good. I'm not saying that the equation is perfect, but it's what the devs work with.

If you find you're completely ruined in IL cause someone can powerless you then you should probably work on your loadout and try find ways to counter PRCS.

Please tell me an efficient way to counter someone while you're getting powerless'd spammed?

Just my two cents: FAR is perfectly fine the way that it is, because the timer for it to activate/low accuracy make it a coin toss in 1v1 fighting. Most of the time it's going to miss, but the person can backpeddle away from it as well.

I've also not experienced any problem getting powerless spammed in MA fights. Most of the time the powerless lasts long enough to just get you out of your rhythm momentarily - and not do any real damage. You're not going to be able to have a person in interlock, powerlessed, perpetually. It also requires a mandatory major in Aikido, which most people don't prefer anyway.

#1 I'm sure you've heard of Mikecool3.

#2 Also, why is it that the other moves that are in the same position on the other branches that have similar effects of powerless/confuse/stun do not hit 100% of the time? Their damage is I believe only minimally better but that's because of the low damage of Aikido, yet high defense.

Suicidal Butterfly makes you confused, which is worse than powerless and does a significantly higher amount of damage. Same with EFK, that stuns, which is again a worse effect than being powerless and does a huge amount of damage. Wrist throw stuns, and stuns quite often in my experience, though nearly everyone agrees it needs to be tweaked.

Confuse stops you from even changing tactics (Speed, power, grab, block) and give you a CT downgrade. Stun stops you from using special moves and also give you a CT downgrade.

After a quick test-run. You're right, you get a -20 CT bonus from Stun (which in IL only affects your normal interlock rounds), but I couldn't find anything regarding Confuse besides the switch tactics. It's in essence, from what I could tell, a powerless that doesn't allow you to switch tactics, which honestly from the intentions of the game's combat system really shouldn't let you switch tactics anyways because "technically" that's an exploit that somehow is accepted because it's used so often.

Even so, that doesn't change the fact that these happen less than half the time (30% on Suicidal, and unknown for the Wrist Throw, but still not 100% as we know it), as opposed to the 100% PRCS. Wrist Throw has 31 DPS with a 65 IS cost, Suicidal with a 35 IS cost and 25 DPS, and PRCS totalling in at 21 DPS and a 40 IS cost. The only thing that seems a little off is the huge jump of IS cost with Wrist Throw, with Kung Fu having Average, Karate having Above Average, and Aikido having Below Average damage which is normal in the differences for the trees. PRCS also has the highest Interlock Accuracy boost of all three of them, at 20 compared to WT 18, and SBF 7 (lol). It just amazes me how this move has a 100% chance to powerless as opposed to the lower percentages (SBF being 30% which is very low compared the 70% increase of PRCS) of the others.

It just doesn't seem like to me the huge increase in percentage is compensating for one round in which you can't tactic switch or you might possibly lose due to a negative CT debuff (not like you'd be doing any abilities to tactic switch anyways, unless you're just sitting on block which wouldn't matter or grab, which again wouldn't matter. I actually don't see why you'd want to change especially for MA when it's just grabpowergrabpower with the ability spam. It's rare for people to go for states once they've gone past the initial going into interlock round.).

Pylat wrote:

Confuse stops you from even changing tactics (Speed, power, grab, block) and give you a CT downgrade. Stun stops you from using special moves and also give you a CT downgrade.

After a quick test-run. You're right, you get a -20 CT bonus from Stun (which in IL only affects your normal interlock rounds), but I couldn't find anything regarding Confuse besides the switch tactics. It's in essence, from what I could tell, a powerless that doesn't allow you to switch tactics, which honestly from the intentions of the game's combat system really shouldn't let you switch tactics anyways because "technically" that's an exploit that somehow is accepted because it's used so often.

Even so, that doesn't change the fact that these happen less than half the time (30% on Suicidal, and unknown for the Wrist Throw, but still not 100% as we know it), as opposed to the 100% PRCS. Wrist Throw has 31 DPS with a 65 IS cost, Suicidal with a 35 IS cost and 25 DPS, and PRCS totalling in at 21 DPS and a 40 IS cost. The only thing that seems a little off is the huge jump of IS cost with Wrist Throw, with Kung Fu having Average, Karate having Above Average, and Aikido having Below Average damage which is normal in the differences for the trees. PRCS also has the highest Interlock Accuracy boost of all three of them, at 20 compared to WT 18, and SBF 7 (lol). It just amazes me how this move has a 100% chance to powerless as opposed to the lower percentages (SBF being 30% which is very low compared the 70% increase of PRCS) of the others.

It just doesn't seem like to me the huge increase in percentage is compensating for one round in which you can't tactic switch or you might possibly lose due to a negative CT debuff (not like you'd be doing any abilities to tactic switch anyways, unless you're just sitting on block which wouldn't matter or grab, which again wouldn't matter. I actually don't see why you'd want to change especially for MA when it's just grabpowergrabpower with the ability spam. It's rare for people to go for states once they've gone past the initial going into interlock round.).

Ballak wrote:

Pylat wrote:

Confuse stops you from even changing tactics (Speed, power, grab, block) and give you a CT downgrade. Stun stops you from using special moves and also give you a CT downgrade.

After a quick test-run. You're right, you get a -20 CT bonus from Stun (which in IL only affects your normal interlock rounds), but I couldn't find anything regarding Confuse besides the switch tactics. It's in essence, from what I could tell, a powerless that doesn't allow you to switch tactics, which honestly from the intentions of the game's combat system really shouldn't let you switch tactics anyways because "technically" that's an exploit that somehow is accepted because it's used so often.

Even so, that doesn't change the fact that these happen less than half the time (30% on Suicidal, and unknown for the Wrist Throw, but still not 100% as we know it), as opposed to the 100% PRCS. Wrist Throw has 31 DPS with a 65 IS cost, Suicidal with a 35 IS cost and 25 DPS, and PRCS totalling in at 21 DPS and a 40 IS cost. The only thing that seems a little off is the huge jump of IS cost with Wrist Throw, with Kung Fu having Average, Karate having Above Average, and Aikido having Below Average damage which is normal in the differences for the trees. PRCS also has the highest Interlock Accuracy boost of all three of them, at 20 compared to WT 18, and SBF 7 (lol). It just amazes me how this move has a 100% chance to powerless as opposed to the lower percentages (SBF being 30% which is very low compared the 70% increase of PRCS) of the others.

It just doesn't seem like to me the huge increase in percentage is compensating for one round in which you can't tactic switch or you might possibly lose due to a negative CT debuff (not like you'd be doing any abilities to tactic switch anyways, unless you're just sitting on block which wouldn't matter or grab, which again wouldn't matter. I actually don't see why you'd want to change especially for MA when it's just grabpowergrabpower with the ability spam. It's rare for people to go for states once they've gone past the initial going into interlock round.).

Comparing it yeah it seems Wrist throw and PRCS should be rebalanced. However that last comment is completely inaccurate for good MAs, which is why syntax has the worst MAs.

The Leo wrote:

Ballak wrote:

Pylat wrote:

Confuse stops you from even changing tactics (Speed, power, grab, block) and give you a CT downgrade. Stun stops you from using special moves and also give you a CT downgrade.

After a quick test-run. You're right, you get a -20 CT bonus from Stun (which in IL only affects your normal interlock rounds), but I couldn't find anything regarding Confuse besides the switch tactics. It's in essence, from what I could tell, a powerless that doesn't allow you to switch tactics, which honestly from the intentions of the game's combat system really shouldn't let you switch tactics anyways because "technically" that's an exploit that somehow is accepted because it's used so often.

Even so, that doesn't change the fact that these happen less than half the time (30% on Suicidal, and unknown for the Wrist Throw, but still not 100% as we know it), as opposed to the 100% PRCS. Wrist Throw has 31 DPS with a 65 IS cost, Suicidal with a 35 IS cost and 25 DPS, and PRCS totalling in at 21 DPS and a 40 IS cost. The only thing that seems a little off is the huge jump of IS cost with Wrist Throw, with Kung Fu having Average, Karate having Above Average, and Aikido having Below Average damage which is normal in the differences for the trees. PRCS also has the highest Interlock Accuracy boost of all three of them, at 20 compared to WT 18, and SBF 7 (lol). It just amazes me how this move has a 100% chance to powerless as opposed to the lower percentages (SBF being 30% which is very low compared the 70% increase of PRCS) of the others.

It just doesn't seem like to me the huge increase in percentage is compensating for one round in which you can't tactic switch or you might possibly lose due to a negative CT debuff (not like you'd be doing any abilities to tactic switch anyways, unless you're just sitting on block which wouldn't matter or grab, which again wouldn't matter. I actually don't see why you'd want to change especially for MA when it's just grabpowergrabpower with the ability spam. It's rare for people to go for states once they've gone past the initial going into interlock round.).

Comparing it yeah it seems Wrist throw and PRCS should be rebalanced. However that last comment is completely inaccurate for good MAs, which is why syntax has the worst MAs.

Syntax has the worst MAs, yet really there is no way to compare the difference between Recursion or Vector to Syntax, so technically although you may find that true to yourself, that's just your personal opinion from a tournament rarely anybody shows up to anymore probably because they don't care about being the best MA ever, imo (no offense). At least on Syntax.

Ballak wrote:

The Leo wrote:

Ballak wrote:

Pylat wrote:

Confuse stops you from even changing tactics (Speed, power, grab, block) and give you a CT downgrade. Stun stops you from using special moves and also give you a CT downgrade.

After a quick test-run. You're right, you get a -20 CT bonus from Stun (which in IL only affects your normal interlock rounds), but I couldn't find anything regarding Confuse besides the switch tactics. It's in essence, from what I could tell, a powerless that doesn't allow you to switch tactics, which honestly from the intentions of the game's combat system really shouldn't let you switch tactics anyways because "technically" that's an exploit that somehow is accepted because it's used so often.

Even so, that doesn't change the fact that these happen less than half the time (30% on Suicidal, and unknown for the Wrist Throw, but still not 100% as we know it), as opposed to the 100% PRCS. Wrist Throw has 31 DPS with a 65 IS cost, Suicidal with a 35 IS cost and 25 DPS, and PRCS totalling in at 21 DPS and a 40 IS cost. The only thing that seems a little off is the huge jump of IS cost with Wrist Throw, with Kung Fu having Average, Karate having Above Average, and Aikido having Below Average damage which is normal in the differences for the trees. PRCS also has the highest Interlock Accuracy boost of all three of them, at 20 compared to WT 18, and SBF 7 (lol). It just amazes me how this move has a 100% chance to powerless as opposed to the lower percentages (SBF being 30% which is very low compared the 70% increase of PRCS) of the others.

It just doesn't seem like to me the huge increase in percentage is compensating for one round in which you can't tactic switch or you might possibly lose due to a negative CT debuff (not like you'd be doing any abilities to tactic switch anyways, unless you're just sitting on block which wouldn't matter or grab, which again wouldn't matter. I actually don't see why you'd want to change especially for MA when it's just grabpowergrabpower with the ability spam. It's rare for people to go for states once they've gone past the initial going into interlock round.).

Comparing it yeah it seems Wrist throw and PRCS should be rebalanced. However that last comment is completely inaccurate for good MAs, which is why syntax has the worst MAs.

Syntax has the worst MAs, yet really there is no way to compare the difference between Recursion or Vector to Syntax, so technically although you may find that true to yourself, that's just your personal opinion from a tournament rarely anybody shows up to anymore probably because they don't care about being the best MA ever, imo (no offense). At least on Syntax.

That's an oppinion of 10 people I know, and the purpose of the tourneys was to see which server had best players.

Anyhow since after 5 threads about rebalancing wrist throw and yet no effect I doubt this will happen either (too tired of talking to the wall, so don't really care anymore).

I see people use Freedom to Joints rather often when fighting hackers actually. PRCS is not a god mode attack, if it was so God like (As you imply) every MA would be spamming it all over the place, yet they aren't.

FAR is a different story, but it really needs to be restricted to IL only, people are talking from the perspective of out of IL, if you are in IL and have someone shooting you with power tactic waiting for the staggered, they are more likely to state you and their aint nothin' you can do about it while IL'd, then FAR comes along and unless you have been keeping a careful eye on your surroundings (maybe I'm slow but I find it difficult to concentrate on all out of IL stuff while IL'ing someone) then you aren't gunna switch your hypers and tank up on ball def/res, so boom! you get hit with FAR and your health is non-existant, and that, quite un-simply, is why FAR needs to be IL only.

To be honest, I can't see why most of the gunmen moves (from a realism standpoint) can't be done OoIL. Those that require the user to be IL'd are those that make physical contact with the opponant.

To me it seems crazy to restrict a probably the only high powered, non-physical IL and OoIL move to IL only in a class which, for the most part, is supposed to be a both in and out of IL class, especially when it's long casting timer and poor accuracy plays a large factor even with high accuracy set of clothing. As for being in IL, if you're in IL with, for example, a MA and you have HyperBlock activated, you're just as screwed if a hacker comes along with logic cannon as you are with a gunner and FAR.

As for PRCS, I'd agree on a slightly longer reuse time and have the chance very high. Besides, technically it shouldn't say "100% chance of powerless (duration)". 100% means everytime, so it should say "causes powerless (duration).

AlphaCoder wrote:

FAR is a different story, but it really needs to be restricted to IL only, people are talking from the perspective of out of IL, if you are in IL and have someone shooting you with power tactic waiting for the staggered, they are more likely to state you and their aint nothin' you can do about it while IL'd, then FAR comes along and unless you have been keeping a careful eye on your surroundings (maybe I'm slow but I find it difficult to concentrate on all out of IL stuff while IL'ing someone) then you aren't gunna switch your hypers and tank up on ball def/res, so boom! you get hit with FAR and your health is non-existant, and that, quite un-simply, is why FAR needs to be IL only.

To be honest, I can't see why most of the gunmen moves (from a realism standpoint) can't be done OoIL. Those that require the user to be IL'd are those that make physical contact with the opponant.

To me it seems crazy to restrict a probably the only high powered, non-physical IL and OoIL move to IL only in a class which, for the most part, is supposed to be a both in and out of IL class, especially when it's long casting timer and poor accuracy plays a large factor even with high accuracy set of clothing. As for being in IL, if you're in IL with, for example, a MA and you have HyperBlock activated, you're just as screwed if a hacker comes along with logic cannon as you are with a gunner and FAR.

As for PRCS, I'd agree on a slightly longer reuse time and have the chance very high. Besides, technically it shouldn't say "100% chance of powerless (duration)". 100% means everytime, so it should say "causes powerless (duration). " width="15" height="15" />

So, I was PvPing, and it seems like pretty much every MA I fight that has some of Aikido loaded like LittleLeeLoo likes to PRCS on the first turn of interlock. And then if they don't die instantly, like to Maki-Okatashi and then PRCS as soon as possible afterwards.

but guise accordin to dis thred tat dusn't happan.

So my point still stands, and I guess Pylat isn't ever going to respond again so why exactly does (if we compare the other high level moves that are in the same place as PRCS, which concordantly have similar effects) PRCS get a 100% chance as opposed to the 30% of Suicidal and the just random as we know it percentage that the Wrist Throw (although as we've established, insane IS cost) has to stun? PRCS has the highest interlock accuracy of all three. Like normal, the Aikido tree has relatively low damage, self-buffs, and high defense rolls with their abilities. PRCS is a low damage, high rolling attack, that apparently gets a 100% effect chance rather than the other two in the other MA trees. Why is that? Yes, Powerless isn't as good as maybe stun, and Confusion is basically just another powerless, but I definitely do not think that the ability deserves a guaranteed 100% chance to cause it's powerless effect. If anything, the re-use timer should be boosted to 12 seconds, making it in theory unable to be used until 3 rounds later, but I don't want to nerf Aikido, I don't want people to never use Aikido because they can't use a *CENSORED* ability do the nerf'd interlock re-use timers. I just want a non-state ability that can be used in interlock as a regular move to be balanced like all the other effect interlock moves out there that DO NOT CAUSE THEIR POSSIBLE EFFECT 100% OF THE TIME. Is that so much to ask?

MA needs a nerf

So, I was PvPing, and it seems like pretty much every MA I fight that has some of Aikido loaded like LittleLeeLoo likes to PRCS on the first turn of interlock. And then if they don't die instantly, like to Maki-Okatashi and then PRCS as soon as possible afterwards.

But, guys, according to this thread that doesn't happen.

So my point still stands, and I guess Pylat isn't ever going to respond again so why exactly does (if we compare the other high level moves that are in the same place as PRCS, which concordantly have similar effects) PRCS get a 100% chance as opposed to the 30% of Suicidal and the just random as we know it percentage that the Wrist Throw (although as we've established, insane IS cost) has to stun? PRCS has the highest interlock accuracy of all three. Like normal, the Aikido tree has relatively low damage, self-buffs, and high defense rolls with their abilities. PRCS is a low damage, high rolling attack, that apparently gets a 100% effect chance rather than the other two in the other MA trees. Why is that? Yes, Powerless isn't as good as maybe stun, and Confusion is basically just another powerless, but I definitely do not think that the ability deserves a guaranteed 100% chance to cause it's powerless effect. If anything, the re-use timer should be boosted to 12 seconds, making it in theory unable to be used until 3 rounds later, but I don't want to nerf Aikido, I don't want people to never use Aikido because they can't use a *CENSORED* ability due to the nerf'd interlock re-use timers. I just want a non-state ability that can be used in interlock as a regular move to be balanced like all the other effect interlock moves out there that do not cause their possible effect 100% of the time. Is that so much to ask?

Fixed.

jl10899 wrote:

MA needs a nerf

You're joking, right?

MA needs a nerf

sbf does around 100 more damage and costs 5 less IS than prcs, so if you really want the 100% powerless reduced you'd have to stick up its damage. Also, even though prcs has a higher IL accuracy bonus, kung fu style has about 15 more points of accuracy than aikido style, so it balances out. And I thought sbf had 40% to confuse, and that efk was in the same position as prcs, not sbf.

If you made dpe IL only, it would take away the only decent out of IL ability in the duelist tree, confining its users to IL only, so you would have to increase its damage over all the abilities. This is true for smgs and FAR.

You bring up a good point. I guess I should have reworded it, meaning that those three are basically near the same type of move, just different variants of each tree. Mostly because if we went on physical positions then there would be in no way SBF would be relevant to MGK. SBF does have a 30% chance to confuse, if you read the ability's description. 100-200 extra damage honestly in replacement of 100% powerless I'd be perfectly okay with.

TonyJaa wrote:

jl10899 wrote:

MA needs a nerf

Martial arts need some attention from Rarebit,not a nerf...More clothes,IS hotfix for some specials,etc..

Agreed.

Pylat wrote:

So LittleLeeLoo uses PRCS on the first round of IL? I have an AMAZING idea. Turn on Hyper Block and change to block tactics, that gives you a better than average chance of avoiding it. You know why it has 100% chance to powerless? Cause it's damage is shite. If it was toned down and damage increased you'd just have a glorified version of SB. The whole point of Aikido is it's very defensive in nature, I'd like to see someone actually kill you by spamming PRCS before they run out of IS. No, they use it as a leg up to give them the advantage and use moves from the other trees to finish you off.

Apparently you're the only person who struggles against this move, most other people find a way around it or change their tactics (ZOMG, ability spam might let you down!), like I have said, try changing your tactics and the way you fight before you demand a nerf.

This move has been out since the start of CR 2 and no change has been made to it since then, there's no reason now to ask for a nerf cause some people finally figured out how to capitalise on it.

A lot of abilities in Aikido have "shite" damage as you put it. As above, I wouldn't mind damage increase to balance out a non-100% chance to powerless. People generally never use Aikido solely, they load up to PRCS or possibly Tomo Nage to use the "all defensive nature of Aikido" as they spam their Kung Fu and Karate moves on you while you're powerless. Since grab-power spam is inevitable, you have a hard chance at beating said rolls unless you que up your own moves with high defense against MA's.

I have changed my tactics many times, and number one I'm not an Oracle, I cannot predict when certain abilities are about to occur. Number two, sometimes you just lose rolls, it happens. Number 3 plenty of other moves to my knowledge that don't seem that well balanced haven't been changed either. Particularly Wrist Throw unless it was changed during the earlier days of CR2.0 when I didn't play. "Just because people found out how to say PRCS is bad, doesn't mean they should change it, because it's always been like this and change is horrible." I seem to remeber all the "BAW's" that came from people when Defense was actually fixed, but the community went on. The same could be said for HJ-Beta and Mobius, etc.

Aquatium. wrote:

PRCS does not need a nerf in what it does. I'm also not going to compare it to something like wrist throw, because THAT should IMO should have 100% stun.

Using the accuracy of the move is unfair when putting 2 abilities against each other in MA, because as its pointed out Aikido lacks the most in accuracy and ANY ability you use from each tree uses that particular trees stats (it's why you see the style change). It is for that reason that kungfu moves generally have the lowest number for IL acc boost, since kungfu style itself is a big + for that.

I remember the days of CR1 where ANYTHING with powerless was overpowered, I mean in a MA fight, whoever got powerless or stun on the other opponent first, 90% won that duel (because you could keep looping either of them after that), whereas in Cr2 powerless and stun are far from the be all and end all of a fight, with the right tactics it's easily negated also.

I still in 2 minds if this thread is another prank on the community....

I don't think any ability needs a 100% anything unless the move specifically states that it does it, and for good reason, if it requires a state and/or it's a going into interlock move, or if it's an out of interlock hacker move.

Okay.

I didn't play in CR1, and if what you say is true than I am greatful it was changed. It's just I don't see why the other stuns and confusions are not 100% as well, not that they should be. You'd think that if all the others weren't 100%, that PRCS wouldn't be either. If you must balance it for damage or a lowest IS cost, then fine.

Also, it sort of saddens me that you haven't put the past behind you Aquatium. You can have your personal grudges or opinions for all I care, I just hope that said grudges/opinions do not cloud your judgement on irrelevant topics.