zomg nerf knives QQ

/crackknuckles

Here we go

1) I supose your right in this one if looked at realisticly, you hold the knife by the blade while throwing it, and it has to spin around with the weight of the handle before it hits the opponent.  But looking at it from the MxO combat system, the Sneak attacks, argueable the biggest damage dealing moves force you into IL, therefor it is forcing you into a combat situation where you are taking a penalty which I dont think is fair.  So possibly reduce the Interlock Bonus, but not make it a Penalty.

2) Leg Sweep should be a bit weaker, could even argue it being a melee attack rather than knife, but I will just stick woth it being a low level abil and it has a debuff so should be a little weaker.

3) I am rather happy with Master Shadow, boith used it effectively and gotten beaten while using it so I am indifferent on this one.

And I think Staggering Throw needs a Activation Timer increase, just watching someone get ILed and a MKT donning a disguise and in a second or two you have done masses amounts of damage.

More balance is definatly needed for the spy tree. For one some of the abilities although powerful do miss quite alot.

I think that some of the spy abilities like reverse bull dog and a few others should be looked at they are high up abilities they should do alot of damage but they should also harm the person doing it for a short time, spies are mostly about getting quick kills which is why everyone goes spy but you need to hurt this class while leaving some good in it so people will not just go hahah that's a easy loadout to kill people with. I agree it's to easy sometimes to kill people, tone down the damage for all trees and make them more realistic. In my opinion Punt aswell as the other high damage abilities should all only work like MA abilities they should only work if and when a person is stated.

Also I really think that throwing knives at someone while they are interlocked is lame, it's pointless to fight someone that can sneak wait untill you are in interlock hit you 4 times kill you then jump away. That is *CENSORED* and really it's unrealistic. Solution to this would be add a accuracy bonus to the person the knives are hitting so they can get hurt but have some chance to kill the person they are in interlock with.

Don't nerf spies just make it so people are less drawn to the loadout cause it's a quick and easy killer...

In my opinion Punt aswell as the other high damage abilities should all only work like MA abilities they should only work if and when a person is stated.

Skull101 wrote:

In my opinion Punt aswell as the other high damage abilities should all only work like MA abilities they should only work if and when a person is stated.

You need to be in sneak and you need your opponents shield down, thats work enough for a Knifer.

I have to agree with Zudrag, massive accuracy in both IL and OoIL yet being a spy class, I believe that they should be most effective outside of interlock.

SolidRevolver wrote:

But looking at it from the MxO combat system, the Sneak attacks, argueable the biggest damage dealing moves force you into IL, therefor it is forcing you into a combat situation where you are taking a penalty which I dont think is fair.  So possibly reduce the Interlock Bonus, but not make it a Penalty.

What Solid says here is that they do massive damage going into IL, which is fine, but then they just outroll everything else whilst in IL. They have exit IL abilities which also deal some damage. So in my opinon Spy classes should be strong OoIL, deal damage going into IL but should be weaker or less accurate in IL. So while high damage sneak attacks help, they should not be done without being risky to the spy. When in IL spy classes should want to get out of IL as quickly as possible.

In my mind Spies are sneaky people attacking from the darkness and disappearing into it after dealing damage, not in your face, strong IL fighters.

I also agree on the other points.

My testing has shown that leg sweep and Throat Cutting throw do almost the exact same damage under the exact same conditions.

They appear to be with in 10% damage of each other. And yes the animation of each ability has something to do with it.

And those suggested "fixes" would be simply to reinforce the idea that the Assassin/MKT attacks people with sneak attacks, then slips away from close quarters whenever anyone catches them. They simply shouldn't, in my opinion, be able to spam knife move after knife move with such interlock accuracy as that. Out of interlock, leave that alone, it's fine in my opinion.

Shorter version: If you catch a Spy in interlock, they should try and slink away or be crushed, not litter you with knives.

And those suggested "fixes" would be simply to reinforce the idea that the Assassin/MKT attacks people with sneak attacks, then slips away from close quarters whenever anyone catches them. They simply shouldn't, in my opinion, be able to spam knife move after knife move with such interlock accuracy as that. Out of interlock, leave that alone, it's fine in my opinion.

Shorter version: If you catch a Spy in interlock, they should try and slink away or be crushed, not litter you with knives.

Zudrag wrote:

And those suggested "fixes" would be simply to reinforce the idea that the Assassin/MKT attacks people with sneak attacks, then slips away from close quarters whenever anyone catches them. They simply shouldn't, in my opinion, be able to spam knife move after knife move with such interlock accuracy as that. Out of interlock, leave that alone, it's fine in my opinion.

Shorter version: If you catch a Spy in interlock, they should try and slink away or be crushed, not litter you with knives.

I agree with you, all I was simply saying was there are other aspects that need to be addressed aswell. And if we nerf the spy tree with the bugs still in effect we may overdo it and need to come back to the tree again and strengthen it once the other bugs/problems are addressed.

I heard last week that thrown def is broken. Is this true? If it is, sort that and they should miss a bit more but yeah their acc is a bit too high. I need to go into kung fu change some clothes in order to compete with their rolls.

Thrown Resistance %Bonus is broken

Broken %Bonus Debuffs get a Hotfix, Broken Thrown Resistance %Bonus gets nothing
Double standards ^_^  Sooner they get rid of %Bonuses the better, but thats for another thread.

So, every now and then I stat for knives out of boredom. Long story short, I think the following things are imbalanced. Please remember, if you either add to, debate against certain points, or go "lol i dunno", keep it constructive and try not to insult people.


1) Knife moves should have a significant interlock penalty, similar to hackers. Throwing knives at point blank range and hitting a good majority of the time always seemed really silly to me.

2) Leg Sweep does more damage than Throat cutting throw. I don't know for sure if this is because the animation is technically longer, and the magic equation that calculates Damage/DPS makes it deal more damage or what. I think for such a low level ability, it does too much damage.

3) Master Shadow. If possible, make it to where a hit on the player instead of them taking damage drains IS and puts them in the combat state. Or, make the timer while master shadow is active to 30 or 15 seconds, and make the reuse timer 180 seconds. I believe Master Shadow is about getting away, not about walking around the people who just tried to kill you and say "lol i pwn u gud" for 180 seconds, only to return half a minute later to repeat.

Things like roll out abilities should, in my opinion, remain with the same bonus to roll out, maybe even given a greater bonus.

Thoughts/suggestions/"I don't know much about PVP/combat in general, but I think..."?

So, every now and then I stat for knives out of boredom. Long story short, I think the following things are imbalanced. Please remember, if you either add to, debate against certain points, or go "lol i dunno", keep it constructive and try not to insult people.


1) Knife moves should have a significant interlock penalty, similar to hackers. Throwing knives at point blank range and hitting a good majority of the time always seemed really silly to me.

2) Leg Sweep does more damage than Throat cutting throw. I don't know for sure if this is because the animation is technically longer, and the magic equation that calculates Damage/DPS makes it deal more damage or what. I think for such a low level ability, it does too much damage.

3) Master Shadow. If possible, make it to where a hit on the player instead of them taking damage drains IS and puts them in the combat state. Or, make the timer while master shadow is active to 30 or 15 seconds, and make the reuse timer 180 seconds. I believe Master Shadow is about getting away, not about walking around the people who just tried to kill you and say "lol i pwn u gud" for 180 seconds, only to return half a minute later to repeat.

Things like roll out abilities should, in my opinion, remain with the same bonus to roll out, maybe even given a greater bonus.

Thoughts/suggestions/"I don't know much about PVP/combat in general, but I think..."?

Knives work wonderfully if you know how to use them.

I have to agree with leg sweep thing...if the concept is knives..then make the toys do more damage then some karate move that was incorporated into this knife throwing tree. In my opinion ..we need garrotes. Also, concept  more kniving abilities can replace the leg sweep and roll out abilities.

Master Shadow= awesome screenshots with the various archive prize items, and then diving frankenstein. Other than that it is just a *CENSORED* way out of pvp.

Finally, I wants me a ninja tree!

So, every now and then I stat for knives out of boredom. Long story short, I think the following things are imbalanced. Please remember, if you either add to, debate against certain points, or go "lol i dunno", keep it constructive and try not to insult people.


1) Knife moves should have a significant interlock penalty, similar to hackers. Throwing knives at point blank range and hitting a good majority of the time always seemed really silly to me.

2) Leg Sweep does more damage than Throat cutting throw. I don't know for sure if this is because the animation is technically longer, and the magic equation that calculates Damage/DPS makes it deal more damage or what. I think for such a low level ability, it does too much damage.

3) Master Shadow. If possible, make it to where a hit on the player instead of them taking damage drains IS and puts them in the combat state. Or, make the timer while master shadow is active to 30 or 15 seconds, and make the reuse timer 180 seconds. I believe Master Shadow is about getting away, not about walking around the people who just tried to kill you and say "lol i pwn u gud" for 180 seconds, only to return half a minute later to repeat.

Things like roll out abilities should, in my opinion, remain with the same bonus to roll out, maybe even given a greater bonus.

Thoughts/suggestions/"I don't know much about PVP/combat in general, but I think..."?

• 3 Sneak attacks to enter IL with high damage bonus's
• 6 Abilities to attack when in IL
• 1 Roll-out Technique

I think the MKT is fine as it is. Since I've come back it seems to be working as I expected it to work in cr1. Spy are out of interlock combat, once in combat they should get owned like hackers. Unless your all tricked out for interlock combat you should last that long. much less win in interlock. Leg sweep has always done more damage than knives in interlock, possibly because it's a melee attack. It's alot better now than it was in cr1 when it was doing 1300 damage easy.

I've used alot of old moves from the times I was MKT before and the out come would be I would always lose in interlock or I would win with just a sliver of health. I just stay out of interlock now unless it's for sneak attack purposes.

I do think staggering through should have it's 100% stagger ability back though not that weakened 50% chance. This one is usually most effective against hackers as I really don't like to stagger throw them then they can turn around and use a nuke on me.

The MS time should be switched as Zudrag said. What point is there to be in shadow mode for 180 secs unless your running through the Creston dungeon. It should be 30 secs with 180 reuse time so ppl quit abusing it, if you don't wanna fight the quit flagging.

Some of the sneak attack moves need to be revamped, mostly for damage. The damage goes by level, so I use spin throw on someone I expect it to do atleast 800 not 300 damage. Reverse Bulldog's IS use needs to be lowered, 60 IS just to stun someone isn't worth it. The 70 IS on canny stike I agree with since it's a roll out move and the DPS seems to work like it should. Bulldog's attack damage needs to be raised, I think smashing someones face in the ground should be right up there with kicking them in the nuts.

 IMO MKT is beat most of the time in interlock now, as Marias stated if your losing to an MKT interlock your doing something wrong. That is unless that person geared up for interlock, then I guess your screwed.

I think the MKT is fine as it is. Since I've come back it seems to be working as I expected it to work in cr1. Spy are out of interlock combat, once in combat they should get owned like hackers(but they dont, which is the problem since spy acc is as high as sniper with acc buff running constantly but without the IS drain). Unless your all tricked out for interlock combat you should last that long. much less win in interlock. Leg sweep has always done more damage than knives in interlock, possibly because it's a melee attack(not melee dps and not a melee attack). It's alot better now than it was in cr1 when it was doing 1300 damage easy.

I've used alot of old moves from the times I was MKT before and the out come would be I would always lose in interlock or I would win with just a sliver of health. I just stay out of interlock now unless it's for sneak attack purposes.

I do think staggering through should have it's 100% stagger ability back though not that weakened 50% chance. This one is usually most effective against hackers as I really don't like to stagger throw them then they can turn around and use a nuke on me.(considering staggering throw takes 4 seconds to pull off including the sneak ability and the high dmg those 2 things can't be compared)

The MS time should be switched as Zudrag said. What point is there to be in shadow mode for 180 secs unless your running through the Creston dungeon. It should be 30 secs with 180 reuse time so ppl quit abusing it, if you don't wanna fight the quit flagging.

Some of the sneak attack moves need to be revamped, mostly for damage. The damage goes by level, so I use spin throw on someone I expect it to do atleast 800 not 300 damage. Reverse Bulldog's IS use needs to be lowered, 60 IS just to stun someone isn't worth it.(wrist throws requires more IS and only has a CHANCE to stun...) The 70 IS on canny stike I agree with since it's a roll out move and the DPS seems to work like it should. Bulldog's attack damage needs to be raised, I think smashing someones face in the ground should be right up there with kicking them in the nuts.

 IMO MKT is beat most of the time in interlock now, as Marias stated if your losing to an MKT interlock your doing something wrong. That is unless that person geared up for interlock, then I guess your screwed.

Grace of Darkness wrote:

I think the MKT is fine as it is. Since I've come back it seems to be working as I expected it to work in cr1. Spy are out of interlock combat, once in combat they should get owned like hackers(but they dont, which is the problem since spy acc is as high as sniper with acc buff running constantly but without the IS drain). Unless your all tricked out for interlock combat you should last that long. much less win in interlock. Leg sweep has always done more damage than knives in interlock, possibly because it's a melee attack(not melee dps and not a melee attack). It's alot better now than it was in cr1 when it was doing 1300 damage easy.

I've used alot of old moves from the times I was MKT before and the out come would be I would always lose in interlock or I would win with just a sliver of health. I just stay out of interlock now unless it's for sneak attack purposes.

I do think staggering through should have it's 100% stagger ability back though not that weakened 50% chance. This one is usually most effective against hackers as I really don't like to stagger throw them then they can turn around and use a nuke on me.(considering staggering throw takes 4 seconds to pull off including the sneak ability and the high dmg those 2 things can't be compared)

The MS time should be switched as Zudrag said. What point is there to be in shadow mode for 180 secs unless your running through the Creston dungeon. It should be 30 secs with 180 reuse time so ppl quit abusing it, if you don't wanna fight the quit flagging.

Some of the sneak attack moves need to be revamped, mostly for damage. The damage goes by level, so I use spin throw on someone I expect it to do atleast 800 not 300 damage. Reverse Bulldog's IS use needs to be lowered, 60 IS just to stun someone isn't worth it.(wrist throws requires more IS and only has a CHANCE to stun...) The 70 IS on canny stike I agree with since it's a roll out move and the DPS seems to work like it should. Bulldog's attack damage needs to be raised, I think smashing someones face in the ground should be right up there with kicking them in the nuts.

 IMO MKT is beat most of the time in interlock now, as Marias stated if your losing to an MKT interlock your doing something wrong. That is unless that person geared up for interlock, then I guess your screwed.

(but they dont, which is the problem since spy acc is as high as sniper with acc buff running constantly but without the IS drain)

That is because that person is geared up for interlock (acc and IS clothing)

(considering staggering throw takes 4 seconds to pull off including the sneak ability and the high dmg those 2 things can't be compared)

I'm was not comparing the damage, I was stating the properties of the move. If it's only a chance to stagger then why call it staggering throw any more. It was alot more useful when it actually staggered your opponent everytime.

(wrist throws requires more IS and only has a CHANCE to stun...)

What does that have to do with the spy tree?

The Leo wrote:

Grace of Darkness wrote:

I think the MKT is fine as it is. Since I've come back it seems to be working as I expected it to work in cr1. Spy are out of interlock combat, once in combat they should get owned like hackers(but they dont, which is the problem since spy acc is as high as sniper with acc buff running constantly but without the IS drain). Unless your all tricked out for interlock combat you should last that long. much less win in interlock. Leg sweep has always done more damage than knives in interlock, possibly because it's a melee attack(not melee dps and not a melee attack). It's alot better now than it was in cr1 when it was doing 1300 damage easy.

I've used alot of old moves from the times I was MKT before and the out come would be I would always lose in interlock or I would win with just a sliver of health. I just stay out of interlock now unless it's for sneak attack purposes.

I do think staggering through should have it's 100% stagger ability back though not that weakened 50% chance. This one is usually most effective against hackers as I really don't like to stagger throw them then they can turn around and use a nuke on me.(considering staggering throw takes 4 seconds to pull off including the sneak ability and the high dmg those 2 things can't be compared)

The MS time should be switched as Zudrag said. What point is there to be in shadow mode for 180 secs unless your running through the Creston dungeon. It should be 30 secs with 180 reuse time so ppl quit abusing it, if you don't wanna fight the quit flagging.

Some of the sneak attack moves need to be revamped, mostly for damage. The damage goes by level, so I use spin throw on someone I expect it to do atleast 800 not 300 damage. Reverse Bulldog's IS use needs to be lowered, 60 IS just to stun someone isn't worth it.(wrist throws requires more IS and only has a CHANCE to stun...) The 70 IS on canny stike I agree with since it's a roll out move and the DPS seems to work like it should. Bulldog's attack damage needs to be raised, I think smashing someones face in the ground should be right up there with kicking them in the nuts.

 IMO MKT is beat most of the time in interlock now, as Marias stated if your losing to an MKT interlock your doing something wrong. That is unless that person geared up for interlock, then I guess your screwed.

(but they dont, which is the problem since spy acc is as high as sniper with acc buff running constantly but without the IS drain)

That is because that person is geared up for interlock (acc and IS clothing)

(considering staggering throw takes 4 seconds to pull off including the sneak ability and the high dmg those 2 things can't be compared)

I'm was not comparing the damage, I was stating the properties of the move. If it's only a chance to stagger then why call it staggering throw any more. It was alot more useful when it actually staggered your opponent everytime.

(wrist throws requires more IS and only has a CHANCE to stun...)

What does that have to do with the spy tree?

Well you want an ability that deals massive dmg as sneak attack and stuns. That would be kinda unbalanced to other abilities at similar level.

From a show of hands, how many of the people calling for nerfing the Spy tree use it on a day to day basis?

(but they dont, which is the problem since spy acc is as high as sniper with acc buff running constantly but without the IS drain)

That is because that person is geared up for interlock (acc and IS clothing)

(considering staggering throw takes 4 seconds to pull off including the sneak ability and the high dmg those 2 things can't be compared)

I'm was not comparing the damage, I was stating the properties of the move. If it's only a chance to stagger then why call it staggering throw any more. It was alot more useful when it actually staggered your opponent everytime.

(wrist throws requires more IS and only has a CHANCE to stun...)

What does that have to do with the spy tree?

Marias wrote:

From a show of hands, how many of the people calling for nerfing the Spy tree use it on a day to day basis?

I am, currently levelling an alt using Knife Thrower. The tree is pure win with a side dish of awesome. Can solo the 10 Taskmaster without pills or boosters and without having to sit down.

What I've been noticing recently is you can basically pop Find Weakness, Staggering Throw someone from sneak for about 1,200 damage and say they get staggered. Then you throw a throat cutting throw and they're powerless'd. Then you chuck a few knives or maybe a Neuro to slow'em down and then pop their shield in the process. Run away, disguise, Diving Frankensteiner or go into sneak if your shield is down to surprise them and ta-da, 1,800-2,100 damage easy and they're dead or at a sliver.

Honestly, I think stealth moves should stay the same and the escape abilities as well, even maybe a buff to their interlock accuracy, but make interlock accuracy of knives to that of most Hacker abilities. Also I think someone mentioned that knives should be as they should in interlock because of the Twins, but as we know comparing the movie and the game is beyond pointless.

I don't understand why a "stealth" tree with the most break interlock moves in the game has to dominate interlock so regularly. It should be more of, "stealth move, then break and run"

I never said to raise reverse bulldogs damage, I just suggested lowering the IS. Yes I realize that wrist throw is in the same boat.

Also Disarming shot doesn't disarm anymore because ppl complained in cr1 that they couldn't use they're guns are were usless for one round. Same reason why using grab tactics with MA on gunmen doesn't disarm them anymore. Disarming shot is not to disarm every tree, it's original pupose was to disarm another gunman, hence why it now lowers ballistic accuracy. This is also why I complained about the staggering throw name, I say call it something else since it only has a chance to stagger.

From what I've seen since I've comeback no MKT has survived interlock without help or getting lucky. If there fighting another mkt that's fair game. When I see them against any other tree they get owned constantly in interlock, unless they pulled off a sneak attack to get into interlock.

I personally think we can get rid of the ability spam easily by either removing macros entirely or limiting their use to outside combat.  Those would kill many of the ability spams / chains in the game and force people to think again in combat, and also give the other person a chance to fight back without having to worry about knife spam and hacker spam both in and out of IL.

Not sure about you two, but I don't Macro my attacks in IL with hacker or spy.

Trayden wrote:

I personally think we can get rid of the ability spam easily by either removing macros entirely or limiting their use to outside combat.  Those would kill many of the ability spams / chains in the game and force people to think again in combat, and also give the other person a chance to fight back without having to worry about knife spam and hacker spam both in and out of IL.

How would that be balanced? Your saying it's okay for MA and GM to spam link abilities but not hacker and MKT.

MKT FTW!!!

THE ULTIMATE FARM/PVP/MISSION LOAD!!!

On a note not related to spies, I think also that Upgrade attacks should be unusable in interlock, to prevent hackers from dominating interlock (despite it only being for a short amount of time, it's still a huge pain for any interlock-oriented class to go through those first few rounds and be reduced to either a sliver or be killed by a Hacker that uses upgrade attacks.)

Zudrag wrote:

On a note not related to spies, I think also that Upgrade attacks should be unusable in interlock, to prevent hackers from dominating interlock (despite it only being for a short amount of time, it's still a huge pain for any interlock-oriented class to go through those first few rounds and be reduced to either a sliver or be killed by a Hacker that uses upgrade attacks.)

Upgrade attacks merely removes the IL penalty and adds 5+10 pts acc to the anyway low hacker acc for a few seconds. With it hackers can miss just as much as MA vs MA or gunman vs gunman. If they domminate in those few seconds then maybe itäs because they should have a slight chance of damaging the enemy before dying??

Out of interlock, Serene Calm is almost guaranteed miss for MKT's. Desperation+Serene Calm in interlock is a non negotiable Death Sentence.

MKT has no Viral Defense and has to be about 5 meters closer than a Hacker for its abilities to hit, so Root/Powerless makes you set out of interlock. Even with the accuracy penalties in interlock, Hacker wins hands down with Dots.

Rifles have the range and freefire damage advantage, so one root while a Rifleman puts on every damage buff that he has ends up with a 3-4 shot kill out of interlock. The only problem there is Ballistic Defense and it's supposed to be that way.

Marias wrote:

Out of interlock, Serene Calm is almost guaranteed miss for MKT's. Desperation+Serene Calm in interlock is a non negotiable Death Sentence.

So you propose that EVERY time an MA fights an MKT they have to pop serene calm? That's 50 IS down right there, quite a price to pay just to level the playing field.

But even with it active you have a total base thrown defense of 58 (Aikido) + 47 (Hyper Sense) + 25 (Serene Calm) = 130.

Now assume you have Trolls Hide (3%), Quicksilver Gloves (6%) and the +2% defense Rocawear. Total Defense = 130 x 1.11 = 144.

You still need another 16 points of defense from attributes. So that's 6 points you need to put into Reason (130 x 1.23 = 159). All of this, simply so your defense is merely parable to the accuracy of an MKT, which only lasts for a little over half a minute. I think that's a good indicator that the tree needs work.

As for desperation in IL, an MKT can use Desperation aswell, and then go back to dominating you, so we're back to square one.

Marias wrote:

MKT has no Viral Defense and has to be about 5 meters closer than a Hacker for its abilities to hit, so Root/Powerless makes you set out of interlock. Even with the accuracy penalties in interlock, Hacker wins hands down with Dots.

Actually, most knives have a range of 16m. Most hacks have a range of 16m or less. There are a few with a range of 20m (Code Freeze 1.0 and 2.0, Logic Barrage and Blast, all the awesome debuffs place you within range of the MKT). But if you are seriously proposing that roots that break on damage and some single target damage attacks are all you need to kill an MKT from out of their range you must have been fighting a catatonic MKT. As for the DOT's in IL. MKT has an accuracy of around 160. Hacker has an accuracy of around 130-145 (depending on loadout). Hacker attacks take a penalty to damage in IL that can be as high as -70 to acc. Even the lower level DOT's take over -20 to acc after modifiers. So tell me, with an acc of 168 (After CT modifiers) what aspect of the combat system decides that MKT's will consistently lose rolls to someone with an acc between 125 and 60 (The two extremes of acc)?

Marias wrote:

Rifles have the range and freefire damage advantage, so one root while a Rifleman puts on every damage buff that he has ends up with a 3-4 shot kill out of interlock. The only problem there is Ballistic Defense and it's supposed to be that way.

Unless the MKT hits the rifleman with a root aswell or uses block tactics to dodge most of the attacks. With hacker stats and some smart loadout choices and resistance I was dodging everything ER's could throw at me, it's even easier as an MKT, where you can push your ballistic defense bonus to +74% without breaking a sweat.

I'm asking for balance throw buffs. Fix the bugs that affect MKT, add thrown defense, more debuffs in hacker that are effective vs Spy is what I want. Right now there's basically no way to put an MKT on the back foot and have them at a disadvantage, that needs to change.

The Leo wrote:

Zudrag wrote:

On a note not related to spies, I think also that Upgrade attacks should be unusable in interlock, to prevent hackers from dominating interlock (despite it only being for a short amount of time, it's still a huge pain for any interlock-oriented class to go through those first few rounds and be reduced to either a sliver or be killed by a Hacker that uses upgrade attacks.)

Upgrade attacks merely removes the IL penalty and adds 5+10 pts acc to the anyway low hacker acc for a few seconds. With it hackers can miss just as much as MA vs MA or gunman vs gunman. If they domminate in those few seconds then maybe itäs because they should have a slight chance of damaging the enemy before dying??

It adds about 100 points of accuracy for a level 50, actually.