[10.1.2] "I can run a trace through him" - Syntax - 4/14/08

I knew it.... I KNEW IT!! I KNEW IT!! I KNEW IT!!!!

It was just to find his location. And for what? A sucker punch back? Tho Carlyne didn't soil his them there hands that much. Made us in EPN do that. Still I live by what I said. "Old tactics die hard". Soon enough they will be seen through and be more easier to predict.

Oh well. Someone will get the message soon enough seeing how the Mechs probably already expect the same thing over and over with there "observations" And this is seemingly going the same route -_-

Anyways...

...was just killed by Zudrag.
...was just killed by Zudrag.
...was just killed by Zudrag.
...was just killed by Zudrag.
...was just killed by Zudrag.
...was just killed by Zudrag.
...was just killed by Zudrag.
...was just killed by Zudrag.
...was just killed by Zudrag.
...was just killed by Zudrag.
...was just killed by Zudrag.
...was just killed by Zudrag.
...was just killed by Zudrag.
...was just killed by Zudrag.

Looking through there again, sigh at the Machinist shooting at Halborn. Don't try to interfere with his efforts, just let him do what he's come here to do.

Is that why you did an ever so efficient job at removing his programs with your area hacks? I forgot to thank you for your assistance in that.

(( Yes, Halborn was hostile for the purpose of being attackable by us, not to incite a pvp fest, which it seems certain Machinists are looking to do at every single one of our events, lately. The opportunistic killing, seeing my system chat being flooded with ranged full-auto reduxes and hacks while being interlocked with the storyline character, was over the top even for standards already set quite low. Any faux RP standpoint, such as "I'm operative Billy Bob of the System, on patrol and happened across a hostile EPN force, so I attacked" is a complete cop-out in this instance ))

((Machinists and Zionites are still enemies as we're still at war, EPN doubly so. If Rarebit had intended for EPN to attack Halborn without interference from enemie operatives I'm sure Carlyne would have located him in an Org locked building or warehouse. Machinists are keeping an eye out for action by Halborn and Carlyne and allowing Halborn to do what he needs to do to get out of the system. EPN and Zion are aiding Carlyne and by doing so hampering Halborns progress, so you just expect us to watch and let you do it?))

As for Zudrag's area hacks, they may not be discriminatory and they may have unintendedly affected some targets mut you have to admit the results are in his favour.

shinpseudo wrote:

(( Yes, Halborn was hostile for the purpose of being attackable by us, not to incite a pvp fest, which it seems certain Machinists are looking to do at every single one of our events, lately. The opportunistic killing, seeing my system chat being flooded with ranged full-auto reduxes and hacks while being interlocked with the storyline character, was over the top even for standards already set quite low. Any faux RP standpoint, such as "I'm operative Billy Bob of the System, on patrol and happened across a hostile EPN force, so I attacked" is a complete cop-out in this instance ))

((Machinists and Zionites are still enemies as we're still at war, EPN doubly so. If Rarebit had intended for EPN to attack Halborn without interference from enemie operatives I'm sure Carlyne would have located him in an Org locked building or warehouse. Machinists are keeping an eye out for action by Halborn and Carlyne and allowing Halborn to do what he needs to do to get out of the system. EPN and Zion are aiding Carlyne and by doing so hampering Halborns progress, so you just expect us to watch and let you do it?))

As for Zudrag's area hacks, they may not be discriminatory and they may have unintendedly affected some targets mut you have to admit the results are in his favour.

((I understand the point but apparently you missed something while watching. A few Machinist were not just there to watch and in fact helped Carlyne (sorta). I’m pretty sure Zud would get the award for most Accelerate Programs killed (the small glimps of system chat show ya that he killed more programs then EPN) and jb got the kills for two decelerators so the story for them just being there to monitor Halbron and help him get out goes to *poop* when you're there killing his programs.

Not that I’m complaining because it really didn't bother me (recon still works wonderfully) but that’s just the way I saw it.))

shinpseudo wrote:

(( Yes, Halborn was hostile for the purpose of being attackable by us, not to incite a pvp fest, which it seems certain Machinists are looking to do at every single one of our events, lately. The opportunistic killing, seeing my system chat being flooded with ranged full-auto reduxes and hacks while being interlocked with the storyline character, was over the top even for standards already set quite low. Any faux RP standpoint, such as "I'm operative Billy Bob of the System, on patrol and happened across a hostile EPN force, so I attacked" is a complete cop-out in this instance ))

((Machinists and Zionites are still enemies as we're still at war, EPN doubly so. If Rarebit had intended for EPN to attack Halborn without interference from enemie operatives I'm sure Carlyne would have located him in an Org locked building or warehouse. Machinists are keeping an eye out for action by Halborn and Carlyne and allowing Halborn to do what he needs to do to get out of the system. EPN and Zion are aiding Carlyne and by doing so hampering Halborns progress, so you just expect us to watch and let you do it?))

As for Zudrag's area hacks, they may not be discriminatory and they may have unintendedly affected some targets mut you have to admit the results are in his favour.

((I understand the point but apparently you missed something while watching. A few Machinist were not just there to watch and in fact helped Carlyne (sorta). I’m pretty sure Zud would get the award for most Accelerate Programs killed and jb got the kills for two decelerators so the story for them just being there to monitor Halbron and help him get out goes to *poop* when your there killing his programs.

Not that I’m complaining because it really didn't bother me (recon still works wonderfully) but that’s just the way I saw it.))

(( You cannot have a battle of that scale inside a locked building or a warehouse. It doesn't take much cognitive ability to discern between taking opportunistic ranged pot-shots at someone while they're fighting an LE character, being an obnoxious act or not. Your RP standpoint is being leveraged to justify behavior that was done (perhaps not by all...) solely for the sake of getting their rocks off )) 

Zudrag wrote:

Looking through there again, sigh at the Machinist shooting at Halborn. Don't try to interfere with his efforts, just let him do what he's come here to do.

Is that why you did an ever so efficient job at removing his programs with your area hacks? I forgot to thank you for your assistance in that.

(( Not to break up the current rhetorical wrestling match, but... ))

Sotirios wrote:

(( Not to break up the current rhetorical wrestling match, but... ))

(( What I had posted a couple times about here wasn't ultimately a colossal deal, and I don't hold animosity toward anyone...but it doesn't mean I can't get my proverbial panties in a knot on occasion. A spirited debate is a good thing, even when it's clearly your girlfriend's fault for forgetting to put gas in the car when you had reminded her 6 times. ))

Sotirios wrote:

(( Not to break up the current rhetorical wrestling match, but... ))

(( What I had posted a couple times about here wasn't ultimately a colossal deal, and I don't hold animosity toward anyone...but it doesn't mean I can't get my proverbial panties in a knot on occasion. A spirited debate is a good thing, even when it's clearly your girlfriend's fault for forgetting to put gas in the car when you had reminded her 6 times. ))

GamiSB wrote:

Zudrag wrote:

Looking through there again, sigh at the Machinist shooting at Halborn. Don't try to interfere with his efforts, just let him do what he's come here to do.

Is that why you did an ever so efficient job at removing his programs with your area hacks? I forgot to thank you for your assistance in that.

We can't allow his programs to run rampant through the system, can we?

What if he wanted them to? Not interfering with his efforts covers letting his programs run rampant doesn't it? Also I believe they were there for his protection so again I thank you for helping us keep his defenses down and being the shinnying example of Machine hypocrisy.

GamiSB wrote:

((I understand the point but apparently you missed something while watching. A few Machinist were not just there to watch and in fact helped Carlyne (sorta). I’m pretty sure Zud would get the award for most Accelerate Programs killed and jb got the kills for two decelerators so the story for them just being there to monitor Halbron and help him get out goes to *poop* when your there killing his programs.

Not that I’m complaining because it really didn't bother me (recon still works wonderfully) but that’s just the way I saw it.))

((Halborns override programs and accelerated programs are hostile to everyone and a danger to the simulation. If, by the act of attempting to attack EPN with Area hacks, the accelerated programs get retired and override programs get eliminated then it's a bonus as, from what I saw Halborn was hardly taking any damage even with a load of EPN attacking him, so any 'help' that Zudrag or anyone else may have inadvertently given to EPN was negligable. I cannot speak for any Machinist attacking him, they'll be able to explain their own actions.))

((As I just pointed out to Zud, wanting/claiming to help Halbron in this case doesn't cut it when your single handily taking out a third of his defense (Not to mention stopping Carlyne's attempt to locate Halbron in the real to get him out of the Matrix). Danger to the simulation is obvious so I understand the Machines needing to cut down Halbron's forces but a contradiction arises when you say your here to help but your shutting down what he uses to achieve his goal. And again you must have missed a bit there because I remember seeing Halbron's health cut down by a forth at one point after the area hacks came in full force so yes you did hurt him as much as you claimed to help him.

If you were trying to help him then why not call in back up? why not use a load that doesn't cover such a wide areas (Ballista, Network Attacker, Sniper etc), and why not save the attacking accelerated programs to help you finish off the EPN there and then clean up AFTER Halbron is gone and there purpose has been survey.

On the note about the location I agree with Shin that this could not have happened in a smaller area. The attack in the in closed area with Cyphs was nothing compared to the one in Southhard. In fact I asked the other EPN factions at the debrief about there faction chat and everyone was saying that there's had gone caput during the part with Halbron. If this had been indoors, no thanks I doubt we'd be able to get anywhere near the location without killing a server.))

Zudrag wrote:

GamiSB wrote:

Zudrag wrote:

Looking through there again, sigh at the Machinist shooting at Halborn. Don't try to interfere with his efforts, just let him do what he's come here to do.

Is that why you did an ever so efficient job at removing his programs with your area hacks? I forgot to thank you for your assistance in that.

We can't allow his programs to run rampant through the system, can we?

What if he wanted them to? Not interfering with his efforts covers letting his programs run rampant doesn't it? Also I believe they were there for his protection so again I thank you for helping us keep his defenses down and being the shinnying example of Machine hypocrisy.

((As I just pointed out to Zud, wanting/claiming to help Halbron in this case doesn't cut it when your single handily taking out a third of his defense (Not to mention stopping Carlyne's attempt to locate Halbron in the real to get him out of the Matrix). Danger to the simulation is obvious so I understand the Machines needing to cut down Halbron's forces but a contradiction arises when you say your here to help but your shutting down what he uses to achieve his goal. And again you must have missed a bit there because I remember seeing Halbron's health cut down by a forth at one point after the area hacks came in full force so yes you did hurt him as much as you claimed to help him.

If you were trying to help him then why not call in back up? why not use a load that doesn't cover such a wide areas (Ballista, Network Attacker, Sniper etc), and why not save the attacking accelerated programs to help you finish off the EPN there and then clean up AFTER Halbron is gone and there purpose has been survey.

On the note about the location I agree with Shin that this could not have happened in a smaller area. The attack in the in closed area with Cyphs was nothing compared to the one in Southhard. In fact I asked the other EPN factions at the debrief about there faction chat and everyone was saying that there's had gone caput during the part with Halbron. If this had been indoors, no thanks I doubt we'd be able to get anywhere near the location without killing a server.))

((He was doing well against you even with the loss of a few Accelerated program which just happened to be in area of the Area attacks. As you can see many of the area attacks by Zud took out as many if not more EPN personnel than Accelerated programs. Many of those programs were spawned because we were there also, hence the point about it being possible to have the attack in a large building. Carlyne is hindering Halborns expeditious exit from the Simulation and any fights between the two are destructive to the simulation, EPN and Zion are helping Carlyne slow down Halborn's exit by prolonging his time here and chasing him around.

Again many of us weren't using Area attacks, most of use were using more directed loads, just one or two were using them and getting results from it.

And once more I disagree, the fight could have gone on in a big building, there were as many spawns as there were people in the location EPN and Mechs and anyone else there, in an org locked building there would have been less spawns due to the presence of only EPN and Zion tag-alongers. It's been done before, notably in my experience in the Metacortex lobby which included spawns and a couple of override programs with more Machinists around then EPN in this event. Also seeing as you'd only have had the number of Zion aligned personnel in the building with the spawns for that number, no way would it have killed the server. Many of the people who turned up either wouldn't have come or just stood outside listening.))

((He definitely took out more programs then players. Use simple logic, players are able to run out of range, have better defences, and better health regain then NPCs who are stuck in an single area. While yeah he did take out a few EPN compared to the stats of the NPCs it still stands that his explanation of trying to help Halbron and then removing halbron's means of accomplishing his goals don't add up.

And no I'm sorry but the five Machinist that were there, not suddenly being there would not change the drastic amounts of lag taking place that effectively killed all EPN's faction chat, crew chat, and some team chats. Lag gets worse in enclosed areas not better and putting 20+ players all with their own fx's and fighting animations, 2 Runtimes spawning 4 NPCs per player, and a deaccelerator that has its own running animation its playing, plus Halbron and Carlyne does not = a smooth ride inside a 50 x 50 square feet building. Hell I can't even think of a building that would be large enough.

The number of spawns differed greatly for the two parts. For the Cyphs it was two controlled spawns and the second was only launched when the first had been taken care of practically and before you say it again yes there was lag because of even those two on some peoples end (especially when the CPD went off). The Runtimes spawns are not like that and can't be controlled by rarebit they never quit until the program itself is gone. Also by that time the number of Zion's there had increased. Zion is able to get inside any org locked area we are and the only way to make it so they can't is to lock it for everyone and port PEN inside, this works up until the first recon.))

((He definitely took out more programs then players. Use simple logic, players are able to run out of range, have better defences, and better health regain then NPCs who are stuck in an single area. While yeah he did take out a few EPN compared to the stats of the NPCs it still stands that his explanation of trying to help Halbron and then removing halbron's means of accomplishing his goals don't add up.

And no I'm sorry but the five Machinist that were there, not suddenly being there would not change the drastic amounts of lag taking place that effectively killed all EPN's faction chat, crew chat, and some team chats. Lag gets worse in enclosed areas not better and putting 20+ players all with their own fx's and fighting animations, 2 Runtimes spawning 4 NPCs per player, and a deaccelerator that has its own running animation its playing, plus Halbron and Carlyne does not = a smooth ride inside a 50 x 50 square feet building. Hell I can't even think of a building that would be large enough.

The number of spawns differed greatly for the two parts. For the Cyphs it was two controlled spawns and the second was only launched when the first had been taken care of practically and before you say it again yes there was lag because of even those two on some peoples end (especially when the CPD went off). The Runtimes spawns are not like that and can't be controlled by rarebit they never quit until the program itself is gone. Also by that time the number of Zion's there had increased. Zion is able to get inside any org locked area we are and the only way to make it so they can't is to lock it for everyone and port PEN inside, this works up until the first recon.))

((There is no denying the fact that Halborn stil managed to survive without the loss of a few extra Accelerated programs on Zud's and any other players behalf. They were hostile to everyone, what do you expect them to do ignore the programs shooting at them and change their load because of it? Taking out the amount of EPN, who as you say, have better defences and better health regen then the NPC's outweighs the amount of NPC's taken out.

At the start there were 3 Machinists, myself included. As soon as the attack on Halborn started a lot more turned up promulgating a lot more spawns. This is probably what cause the server chat issues. Had it been EPN in a building to begin with, you would have had around 20 players and the LE characters (who can be counted as just player RSI's at that point) You also have to credit Rarebit with some situational awareness, he could have held the event in a large building with that many players and just not spawned 2 runtimes and the event would still have played out, he did then because it was outside and there was a lot more space open to him. Not saying there wouldn't have been any lag, I always get lag, but I can play fairly well with lag and a couple of dozen players fighting in a building or in a small area with a fair few NPC's another event like that, minus the override program animations, was the Wright research event at the end with multiple spawns of security and loads of Machinists fighting in the lobby and outside))

shinpseudo wrote:

(( Yes, Halborn was hostile for the purpose of being attackable by us, not to incite a pvp fest, which it seems certain Machinists are looking to do at every single one of our events, lately. The opportunistic killing, seeing my system chat being flooded with ranged full-auto reduxes and hacks while being interlocked with the storyline character, was over the top even for standards already set quite low. Any faux RP standpoint, such as "I'm operative Billy Bob of the System, on patrol and happened across a hostile EPN force, so I attacked" is a complete cop-out in this instance ))

((Machinists and Zionites are still enemies as we're still at war, EPN doubly so. If Rarebit had intended for EPN to attack Halborn without interference from enemie operatives I'm sure Carlyne would have located him in an Org locked building or warehouse. Machinists are keeping an eye out for action by Halborn and Carlyne and allowing Halborn to do what he needs to do to get out of the system. EPN and Zion are aiding Carlyne and by doing so hampering Halborns progress, so you just expect us to watch and let you do it?))

As for Zudrag's area hacks, they may not be discriminatory and they may have unintendedly affected some targets mut you have to admit the results are in his favour.

Vinia, I can kind of understand why you would try to defend a fellow Machinist (I use the term loosely), but this is getting ridiculous, especially when you said "Machinists are keeping an eye out for action by Halborn and Carlyne."  Zudrag goes to events for all orgs on all servers, regardless of whether or not he has any business there, and he usually attacks anyone who is flagged.  (Well, except for events on Vector, where he just ganks lowbies and then uses Master Shadow.)  Trying to justify his actions from an RP standpoint is absurd.

Also, you make it sound like Zion and EPN just want to help Carlyne, and hampering Halborn is a side-effect of that, when it's actually the other way around.  I don't think anyone in Zion fully trusts Carlyne, but he's the only one who can stand up to Halborn.  We want Halborn to pay for what he did to the Oracle, since we actually cared about her, but we're not much of a threat to him, so our best bet is to help Carlyne fight him.  Since Carlyne has explicitly stated that he is trying to get Halborn out of the Matrix, I really don't understand why the Machines don't support him as well.