Another Nerf HJ thread

I dont PVP much but I think it is fine the way it is, mabey some trees could do with more rooting or at least slowing debuffs to prevent HJing but you cant kill everyone, and they are running away so arent a threat and nerfing the only way to effectively escape a fight (both in pvp and pve) I personally dont think is the way to go.

I dont PVP much but I think it is fine the way it is, mabey some trees could do with more rooting or at least slowing debuffs to prevent HJing but you cant kill everyone, and they are running away so arent a threat and nerfing the only way to effectively escape a fight (both in pvp and pve) I personally dont think is the way to go.

SolidRevolver wrote:

I dont PVP much but I think it is fine the way it is, mabey some trees could do with more rooting or at least slowing debuffs to prevent HJing but you cant kill everyone, and they are running away so arent a threat and nerfing the only way to effectively escape a fight (both in pvp and pve) I personally dont think is the way to go.

See, here's the problem. The instant you flag, if you do a CTRL+Space hyperjump, you cannot be hit with any attack or debuff. You are instantly un-attackable until you hit the ground again.

...What do you think about this?

Needs more cowbell.  Seriously, why inconvenience travelers even in the slightest just so you can secure a worthless CQ?

5-10 seconds of vulnerability is all that an Agent, Corruptor or gang of NPCs need to gank the living daylights out of someone.  I say leave HJ the way it is and stop PvPing with players who can't keep one foot on the ground long enough to prove they have a pair.

Zudrag wrote:

...What do you think about this?

Needs more cowbell.  Seriously, why inconvenience travelers even in the slightest just so you can secure a worthless CQ?

5-10 seconds of vulnerability is all that an Agent, Corruptor or gang of NPCs need to gank the living daylights out of someone.  I say leave HJ the way it is and stop PvPing with players who can't keep one foot on the ground long enough to prove they have a pair.

I say leave HJ the way it is and stop PvPing with players who can't keep one foot on the ground long enough to prove they have a pair.

I forgive you both.  " />

The fact of the matter is, nobody wants to wait for people to "grow a pair." I've been waiting for three years.

Believe me, I know the frustration.  I just don't see a point in changing HJ when people are still going to jump no matter what. :\

Yeah, this idea would make it difficult but it's not going to change the fact that they will find another means of escaping "death".  Meanwhile, some lowb in Westview gets constantly butthurt because he can't escape NPCs or Agents because his reuse timer is still charging.

...because he can't escape ... Agents ...

Also it's kind of strange to just jump away constantly. Imagine in the movies if they all could of just hyper jumped away the whole time.

It was a feat to pull off a hyper-jump for a redpill there, and took some concentration. I don't see why it should be any different in the game based off the movie.

Zudrag wrote:

Also it's kind of strange to just jump away constantly. Imagine in the movies if they all could of just hyper jumped away the whole time.

It was a feat to pull off a hyper-jump for a redpill there, and took some concentration. I don't see why it should be any different in the game based off the movie.

If you go for the movies, there's no point in PvP either.

There is a reason why NEGATIVE speed movements effect hyperjump.

There is a reason why we have many abilites that enable roots/slows.

There is a reason why a tactical team adds movement debuffs into their builds.

It's an ability we all use, and yes I have seen and made every single person who complains about hyperjumping... use it. Why do I make that point? because people are quick to dismiss hyperjump when it prevents them from getting that kill they wanted, it makes them have to chase a target. Hyperjumping can be fustrating to people, because you get to the target and then they are gone.

I both use and face targets who use this ability, but it makes me a better pvp'er knowing when to use it and how to prevent the target from doing so, sure sometimes I get killed before I can escape, and sure targets have eluded me from constant hyperjumping, but you will only ever get the kill if you choose to be persistant. Some people don't even bother chasing someone who jumps, that's their choice, hell, forcing someone to jump away can be a tactical decision.

IF, and only IF you wanted to add a logical argument to a nerf, then it would be a "- superjump points" when in combat state, which should force players to use clothing to possibly counter that, imo, that is the only real consideration, also you would make the - points level scaled. This still allows people to utlize the ability, but hinders distance somewhat.

Stunning your opponent stops the use of pills if I remember correctly.

And for those who whine about "I just rooted him and he jumped", you have to realize, that personal latency determines this. Just because you see yourself rooting said person, doesn't mean your...request to root...came before the target's request to jump. This will result in rooting the person in mid air because they had just taken off on the server side, and are within targeting range at that time.

Don't know what I'm talking about? See NPCs shooting around corners.

There is latency to consider, yes, but there is also distance. You can root someone just starting their HyperJump (especially as a rifleman), so long as their distance from you is within your abilities distance, obviously.

20m range applies straight up as well as straight across. Just thought I'd mention it.

Zudrag wrote:
They generally snipe, jump x 50 until the person chasing them gives up, or they manage to evade them, then sneak back and finish someone off.
They finish someone off? After 50 jumps?

Mighty fine exaggeration.

In the other event you're referring to, that is, evading and sneaking back to finish up - why is the person who was just sniped still sitting there? Frankly, in that event, their own stupidity means they deserve to die.

The point you keep missing, my friend, is that someone has to stick around in order to get a kill. There is no one-hit wonder. Thus, if they've jumped after a snipe, without outside assistance, they haven't gotten a kill. Why should you get the kill? Because they... bothered you?

Zudrag wrote:
It's 5-10 seconds of a reuse timer, it's not like I'm proposing a minute reuse timer.
You're proposing a shift in power towards those who aren't HyperJumping, and away from those who are. And in most instances of combat, this means you're shifting power towards those who already have the numbers, and don't need more power.

If you didn't think it would get you more kills and improve your PvP, you wouldn't be suggesting it.

Zudrag wrote:
They generally snipe, jump x 50 until the person chasing them gives up, or they manage to evade them, then sneak back and finish someone off.
They finish someone off? After 50 jumps?

Mighty fine exaggeration.

In the other event you're referring to, that is, evading and sneaking back to finish up - why is the person who was just sniped still sitting there? Frankly, in that event, their own stupidity means they deserve to die.

The point you keep missing, my friend, is that someone has to stick around in order to get a kill. There is no one-hit wonder. Thus, if they've jumped after a snipe, without outside assistance, they haven't gotten a kill. Why should you get the kill? Because they... bothered you?

Zudrag wrote:
It's 5-10 seconds of a reuse timer, it's not like I'm proposing a minute reuse timer.
You're proposing a shift in power towards those who aren't HyperJumping, and away from those who are. And in most instances of combat, this means you're shifting power towards those who already have the numbers, and don't need more power.

If you didn't think it would get you more kills and improve your PvP, you wouldn't be suggesting it.

In other news, water is wet.

Zudrag wrote:

In other news, water is wet.

Don't imply that your change wouldn't have much of an effect on combat, and I wont be forced to remind you of certain obvious facts.

• Someone who HJ's can't be attacked...almost true of course, if they are quick but on the other hand nor can they attack anyone else....what could be fairer than that?
  
• My wish to kill is more important than someone else's wish to live.....err bollocks in any realistic scenario and any decent pvp system staying alive is at least as important if not moreso
• HJ is a cheap get out of pvp..... yeah it is, sometimes, but there are many cheap tactics out there and conversely there are many valid occasions when hj is very much needed, when facing the zerg for example it becomes vital.....you think life is frustrating now it would be far more frustrating for far more people if the pvp is restricted to reduce a players options when the going gets tough.
  
• someone typing /pvp and hj'ing repeatedly is very frustrating..... indeed it can be but thats really your problem and no one else's - if all they do is hj they aren't going to threaten anyone and if they stop to attack there is a considerable number of roots and slows designed to stop them, changing HJ will negate the need for large sections of the combat system reducing player interactivity, strategy and skill in any pvp situation.

Changing the behaviour of HJ affects every aspect of the game not just PvP. What are the real arguments

• Someone who HJ's can't be attacked...almost true of course, if they are quick but on the other hand nor can they attack anyone else....what could be fairer than that?
  
• My wish to kill is more important than someone else's wish to live.....err bollocks in any realistic scenario and any decent pvp system staying alive is at least as important if not moreso
• HJ is a cheap get out of pvp..... yeah it is, sometimes, but there are many cheap tactics out there and conversely there are many valid occasions when hj is very much needed, when facing the zerg for example it becomes vital.....you think life is frustrating now it would be far more frustrating for far more people if the pvp is restricted to reduce a players options when the going gets tough.
  
• someone typing /pvp and hj'ing repeatedly is very frustrating..... indeed it can be but thats really your problem and no one else's - if all they do is hj they aren't going to threaten anyone and if they stop to attack there is a considerable number of roots and slows designed to stop them, changing HJ will negate the need for large sections of the combat system reducing player interactivity, strategy and skill in any pvp situation.

Embrace the chase, its the most varied and challenging aspect of pvp it adds to the simple toe to toe stuff and many many players have proved they can work it very well...

They can't attack while jumping, yes, but they jump until people give up, and then run back over in sneak/ E&E for another high damage attack on someone. Rinse and repeat.

And a better way to kill the zerg is to constantly keep attacking them, not jump away. It's more time wasted jumping than it would be to reconstruct.

Zudrag wrote:

They can't attack while jumping, yes, but they jump until people give up, and then run back over in sneak/ E&E for another high damage attack on someone. Rinse and repeat.

And a better way to kill the zerg is to constantly keep attacking them, not jump away. It's more time wasted jumping than it would be to reconstruct.

While they are running away your IS and Health regenerate so if they are going to make any progress whatsoever you know how long it will take them to return and If you know what they are going to do you can protect against it which is why there are many abilities designed for the purpose.

Constantly attack the Zerg????????  Errr whaaa that is certainly not the right approach and defies any and all logic.

Normally if someone hyperjumps I click manual hyperjump view, it gives you sort of a birds eye view but you can still move around, and see everything around you.. when someone jumps, I run up to where they took off, in the direction they were facing, and go into hyperjump view as it's then very easy to catch up to them.  Either that or I jump where they lept and you can see them in the air, and gauge when they are going to come down