Discussion: What is it about Player Events that makes you not want to participate?

#36300422545 03/10/2008 06:39:40 Discussion: What is it about Player Events that makes you not want to participate?

I'm going to post this here in General Discussion because it is actually a discussion, and while it is about player events, it isn't an event link so I don't feel that it belongs in the Player Events section of the forums. I see that area as a listing of events and discussion about specific events.

But this idea came from a discussion with Procurator in Broadcast Depth. And something I've been noticing more and more recently is how notoriously difficult it is to get people involved in player events and as someone who enjoys being creative and telling stories, I find it really frustrating. So what I would like to know is, what is it about player events that makes you not want to participate? And is there anything that future event planners can do to fix the problem(s) and get you interested?

Now, I'm not really talking about tourneys or parties, etc. Those have a built-in audience. People will almost always come to them, assuming it isn't a really off-the-wall time.

Why is it that something can be of interest to us when we don't know it's status with regard to being official, but as soon as Rarebit browses the forums and pops out and says, "Oh, this isn't us" you suddenly say forget it? Which, by the way, I think is a really bad idea because while I understand that Rarebit might not want people to get confused with what's MxO canon and what isn't, it also discourages community event participation when he does things like that because player events tend to have to rely heavily on people not knowing if it's official or not. Why do we have to overanalyze things to the point where we absolutely MUST know if such and such character is LESIG or not instead of just having fun and appreciating that there are creative people in the community trying to make our experience better.

Why can't we just enjoy it, so long as the concept of the event isn't completely out there and unbelievable with regards to the game world?

#36300422549 03/10/2008 06:43:47 Re:Discussion: What is it about Player Events that makes you not want to participate?

My most recent reply on the 'Keep your eyes open' thread:

Archangel wrote:

((And I can understand that. If a LE and a PE are happening at the same time, LE should get the priority. But what about instances where there are no LESIG people jacked in, or no LE's going on and somebody's hosting a particularly intriguing event. Do you just write it off in that situation simply because it isn't Rarebit/LESIG or do you entertain the possibility of checking it out?))

(( Ah, no, that's not what I meant. When I say that the story has to take priority over player RP, I mean the RP itself; the stories, not the events.

The reinsertion issue is a good example. People RP'd that they'd been reinserted, or that reinsertion was possible. Then the story came along and said no, it wasn't possible. The story's word is final, as it were, so the people who'd RP'd about reinsertion had to either scrap their stories or come up with ways around the problem.

So whatever A:B is up to, it has less importance/significance/relevance than the story. In a lot of cases player RP is more creative or interesting or loyal to the films (sorry Rare), so it's a shame that this is the case, but it is. Some level of canonicity must be maintained. ))

#36300422551 03/10/2008 06:54:24 Re:Discussion: What is it about Player Events that makes you not want to participate?

Procurator wrote:

My most recent reply on the 'Keep your eyes open' thread:

Archangel wrote:
((And I can understand that. If a LE and a PE are happening at the same time, LE should get the priority. But what about instances where there are no LESIG people jacked in, or no LE's going on and somebody's hosting a particularly intriguing event. Do you just write it off in that situation simply because it isn't Rarebit/LESIG or do you entertain the possibility of checking it out?))
(( Ah, no, that's not what I meant. When I say that the story has to take priority over player RP, I mean the RP itself; the stories, not the events.

The reinsertion issue is a good example. People RP'd that they'd been reinserted, or that reinsertion was possible. Then the story came along and said no, it wasn't possible. The story's word is final, as it were, so the people who'd RP'd about reinsertion had to either scrap their stories or come up with ways around the problem.

So whatever A:B is up to, it has less importance/significance/relevance than the story. In a lot of cases player RP is more creative or interesting or loyal to the films (sorry Rare), so it's a shame that this is the case, but it is. Some level of canonicity must be maintained. ))

If that's the case there's not much point in RPing period, as Rarebit can always come out and say whatever that invalidates a number of things. The key is how the players handle it. I once RP'd a forced reinsertion, but when that news came out, I turned it into an angle of, "If I wasn't reinserted...what really happened to me and how did I get back?" sort of thing that was never resolved.

#36300422552 03/10/2008 06:59:49 Re:Discussion: What is it about Player Events that makes you not want to participate?

Archangel wrote:

Procurator wrote:
My most recent reply on the 'Keep your eyes open' thread:

Archangel wrote:
((And I can understand that. If a LE and a PE are happening at the same time, LE should get the priority. But what about instances where there are no LESIG people jacked in, or no LE's going on and somebody's hosting a particularly intriguing event. Do you just write it off in that situation simply because it isn't Rarebit/LESIG or do you entertain the possibility of checking it out?))
(( Ah, no, that's not what I meant. When I say that the story has to take priority over player RP, I mean the RP itself; the stories, not the events.

The reinsertion issue is a good example. People RP'd that they'd been reinserted, or that reinsertion was possible. Then the story came along and said no, it wasn't possible. The story's word is final, as it were, so the people who'd RP'd about reinsertion had to either scrap their stories or come up with ways around the problem.

So whatever A:B is up to, it has less importance/significance/relevance than the story. In a lot of cases player RP is more creative or interesting or loyal to the films (sorry Rare), so it's a shame that this is the case, but it is. Some level of canonicity must be maintained. ))
If that's the case there's not much point in RPing period

To be honest, I think that this is actually something a lot of people have come to ask themselves. Because, at the end of the day, the only way to truely contribute to your org is to help an LO/take part in a LESIG event or take part in a Live Event. Sitting at Camon or Tabor or wherever, and talking doesn't really contribute anything in the grandscheme of things and thats a fairly big problem, but it's not one that Rarebit can really do anything about with everything he does already anyway.

#36300422554 03/10/2008 07:02:20 Re:Discussion: What is it about Player Events that makes you not want to participate?

Archangel wrote:

If that's the case there's not much point in RPing period, as Rarebit can always come out and say whatever that invalidates a number of things. The key is how the players handle it. I once RP'd a forced reinsertion, but when that news came out, I turned it into an angle of, "If I wasn't reinserted...what really happened to me and how did I get back?" sort of thing that was never resolved.

Oh, there's always a way to work around a problem like that, mostly even without retconning (although there's always that option to fall back on if all else fails). How d'you think TV dramas manage to continue despite all the implausible twists they throw at us? SMILEY

RP'ing isn't pointless in the slightest. Potential storyline conflicts can mostly be avoided by just avoiding subjects that stray too close to the primary plot. For example, a story about how a Cypherite infiltrated Old Zion is fine, but a story about how someone met Halborn before he entered the Matrix is just begging to get its author in trouble.

#36300422556 03/10/2008 07:22:32 Re:Discussion: What is it about Player Events that makes you not want to participate?

Pfft. That's akin to saying you're a 700 year old lesbian vampire...

...except less believable. SMILEY

But yeah, that example is obviously way out there.

#36300422558 03/10/2008 07:32:29 Re:Discussion: What is it about Player Events that makes you not want to participate?

The problem I have with events is the fact that every time the main story takes a turn, Rare's ideas invalidate a ton of people's stories, while there is almost no care in the world for it. Things such as reinsertion should have never been written out of the story. I don't know how many people that specific incident affected. I had to write up an entire new backstory for Rogue, and my entire org got basically devastated(they lost their purpose, and what we have now is no where near a purpose). Certain things should be left sacred in the story, and player RP should actually drive some of the decisions made for the main story. Until Rare and Chad realize that, player events will continue on the decline, and RP will start becoming nonexistent.

#36300422560 03/10/2008 07:46:27 Re:Discussion: What is it about Player Events that makes you not want to participate?

Speaking of which, whatever happened to:

"The future of the Matrix is in your hands!" and "What happens next? You tell us."

#36300422562 03/10/2008 07:53:38 Re:Discussion: What is it about Player Events that makes you not want to participate?

Archangel wrote:

Speaking of which, whatever happened to:
"The future of the Matrix is in your hands!" and "What happens next? You tell us."

Two words: Epic Fail.

Allowing players to determine the "fate of the Matrix" relies on the story-writer's willingness to either:

1. Leave the story open-ended and viable for any outcome.

2. Alter the story accordingly, based on what players have done.

Right now the one(s) behind the story consider neither of these a viable option. It's exactly why we no longer have the same Live Events we once had, on the same scale, or of the same breed.

Back in the Monolith days, events were of a much, much larger scale. Not (believe it or not) because there was a massive Live Events Team in play (if you remember, there was hardly ever, with the exception of the crew of the Novalis II, three characters on at a single time) but because they were just handled differently. Niobe would pop up in Mara and give a speech for all redpills loyal to Zion, Flood would show up in Apollyon and give a speech for all redpills loyal to the Merovingian, and Agent Gray or Skinner would show up in Midian Park and give a speech for all redpills loyal to the Machines.

By the time they left, we'd all find ourselves neck-deep in battle with tons (upon tons, upon tons) of NPC's that would spawn in their wake.

What we have now is much, much different.

Any time anyone participates in a Live Event now, they're participating in the SAME Live Event that they've participated in a million times before. They're just different colors being drawn on a xeroxed copy of the same coloring book page.

[Generic Live Event Outline - Any Organization - Any Server]

1. Organizational Liaison makes sure all players of said organization are in designated meeting area.

2. Organizational Liaison silences all players to allow the Organizational Leader Character to speak and say everything they have to say.

3. Organizational Leader Character tells players the objective of where they will be going and what they will be doing.

4. Organizational Liaison gives the location information to all players through /tell.

5. Players embark to location where they meet up with their Organizational Leader Character and kill some NPC's or drop a code bomb.

6. Players and Organization Leader Character speak with another Story Character.

7. Players and Organizational Leader Character kill some more NPC's.

8. Event Ends.

[end]

I'm not trying to be excessively negative. Not at all, really. I'm just saying that Live Events are bland now and watered down. At least in Player Events, even if it's some new guy's sad excuse for god-modding, it's something different.

#36300422583 03/10/2008 08:37:52 Re:Discussion: What is it about Player Events that makes you not want to participate?

I don't "RP", rather I "act normal" if such an in-game situation occurs (in which case I hardly ever speak and I just answer or ask questions, while using good grammar and normal vocabulary). However, despite that, I still used to join player events. Not so much now because I've seen so many shoddy ones, so many poorly written ones, so many competitions that are fixed, that I've decided to either become an audience or not get involved at all in most player events.

#36300422603 03/10/2008 09:01:35 Re:Discussion: What is it about Player Events that makes you not want to participate?

I've hardly ever participated in a player event, partly because they where on too late for me or didnt really take my interest. I did attempt to write stories and plots etc a few times and i got quite a few ideas on the o but they where often closely related to the plot at that time and by the time it was written the story had moved on or as you said invalidated it.

I did manage quite a while ago to create a character related to the current plot, she was directly related but not in a way that could effect it...well it could but the outcome was preplanned and was going to always turn out the same so i knew it wouldnt effect it. Nether the less its actual story and plot was improvised as we went along. I managed to gather quite a crowed and on top of that i do believe some people enjoyed it. Including myself. I didnt advertise or post fliers and i think thats partially why it worked so well i managed to interest some RPers at tabor west who notified the rest SMILEY ultimately i bluffed an event from start to finnish (with a little prep ofcourse as i knew begining, middle and end) and it worked. My point is even though it was related to the larger plot at hand i did manage to create a sub plot event and because it was story related it cought the initial attention. Unfortunately it still doesnt solve the dilema between why people choose LE as apposed to PE SMILEY

I guess as you said its hard to find a half decent PE and people just dont want to waste time with something like that ^^

#36300422609 03/10/2008 09:12:08 Re:Discussion: What is it about Player Events that makes you not want to participate?

I love Player events. I think they're fun, and I'd love to join in on more, if there was more. :/

#36300422618 03/10/2008 09:30:07 Re:Discussion: What is it about Player Events that makes you not want to participate?

Other than canonical issues, there are main issues I have with Player Events:

1. God-Modding. It's frustrating enough to do RP-PVP just because your RSI is not "leveled a certain way," not to mention that on RP stories with or without combat, the creators of said RP are running the story, giving very little leeway for an achievable outcome other than what the GMs want.

2. Time commitment: Long before I entered community college, I barely have enough time to participate in any Player Events at all. I try to get a decent amount of sleep, not to mention that I only have enough time to just do things solely in-game (really can't alt+tab reading the forums and playing the game at the same time since it causes major lag issues on my PC if I do it repeatedly). I just outright don't have time to read the Player Event or Syntax Renaissance forums and digest said written story because A. It will take too long, and B. I'll miss out on a possible Live Event just because I spent a few hours on reading up a PE. On top of that, I have martial arts classes every single night, Monday through Friday, and I am not interested in dropping out on that. As it is now, especially with possible employment I can only do critical missions and end-game content, that's about it.

3. Accessibility: Accessibility is very limited for non-forum players, much less players outside of an RP GM's faction. Whenever I ask "What the hell is going on" within an RP story, I always keep getting met with "Read the *CENSORED* forums." Newsflash, I don't have the freaking time for the forums. My time is limited as it is. I've seen that with Havocide's player events, not to mention that I was out of the loop constantly on Jobi's RP stories.

#36300422634 03/10/2008 10:05:16 Re:Discussion: What is it about Player Events that makes you not want to participate?

Yeah i occasionaly get involved in some of these things, but never really fully, but it seems to me that alot of them revolve round puzzles and cryptic clues, and running back and forth from this website to this other one, which alot of people can't really get their heads around doing (or are like me just crap at puzzles and would prefer to just find stuff out in game). Also, some seem to go on and on and talking with a character can really get you nowhere sometimes, if you're not asking the right questions etc. so people kinda get frustrated or bored and give up.

I'm no expert, but maybe some more action, less talking would be nice...mysteries are all well and good, but sometimes, some good old, find this guy, kill this guy stuff would be kinda fun (I helped out a faction once with some RP where i basically had to kill em all (or not, wasn't scripted) and run about and they had to find me which was fun, and actually felt like you were doing something...rather than sitting about talking about nothing for two hours.

(though this is just me, no offence to anyone who likes it the other way, this is just how i feel sometimes

)

#36300422639 03/10/2008 10:09:07 Re:Discussion: What is it about Player Events that makes you not want to participate?

Dulux wrote:

Yeah i occasionaly get involved in some of these things, but never really fully, but it seems to me that alot of them revolve round puzzles and cryptic clues, and running back and forth from this website to this other one, which alot of people can't really get their heads around doing (or are like me just crap at puzzles and would prefer to just find stuff out in game). Also, some seem to go on and on and talking with a character can really get you nowhere sometimes, if you're not asking the right questions etc. so people kinda get frustrated or bored and give up.

I'm no expert, but maybe some more action, less talking would be nice...mysteries are all well and good, but sometimes, some good old, find this guy, kill this guy stuff would be kinda fun (I helped out a faction once with some RP where i basically had to kill em all (or not, wasn't scripted) and run about and they had to find me which was fun, and actually felt like you were doing something...rather than sitting about talking about nothing for two hours.

(though this is just me, no offence to anyone who likes it the other way, this is just how i feel sometimes )

Well, the real problem in that regard with PE's is level. Most of the participants will end up being level 50 and it's a little useless and anti-climactic to have a level 50 go in to take out a bunch of level 10's. I wish the devs would give us some storyteller stuff like they have in SWG to spawn a few NPC's at a certain level.

Something like the Runtime Bit but for different NPC's would work nicely. Hint hint, Rarebit.

#36300422672 03/10/2008 11:25:43 Re:Discussion: What is it about Player Events that makes you not want to participate?

my view on this is jaded.

it comes from the early days of live. Many pe's were just self serving events to further a specific group,faction, person, etc. rather than to tell an intriguing story and help the community/game. just my opinion but one i feel was backed well. eventually it got to where i didnt even care to look at what was going on.

the leg10n vs prophet of the martyrs pe was a lot of fun because it was kept quiet and simple. few outside factions knew of or were involved in it. it easily kept 25 or so of us occuppied for an evening and it led to my eventual fall from zion and re-birth in leg10n. the problem being, it could not have been done as well or been so easily adaptable on the fly if it had been org wide or involved massive amounts of people. and roleplaying a zion spy caught invading a machine meeting was just too much fun

the other side of it:

i still remember when player actions did change the storyline. small events could happen at any time of the day or night on more than one server at a time. maybe frag collecting during big events sucked but at least an org had a chance to change things and maybe the shapers event didnt matter as much in the long run but at least some org had to take the win. maybe neurophyte was a LET creation but at least it came from the top and was open ended enough to feel like it mattered. once things like that were left behind, for good, the entirety of the story lost some meaning for me. now it was just any other game

over time, i have come to enjoy the story again and even tried to get back in to the roleplay circles but the final problem with the rp is elitism. wear the wrong tag for a few months/years and people will not work with you. not jumping into "their style of rp" and they will ignore you or push you off. and then lesig is and will always have corruption tied to this elitism. yes, i did benefit from such things as well. leg10n got to be the first to say anome was a villian and i jumped at the chance to share that with the community. and maybe leg10n used some insider info to get back at some elitist machines, talk about player events gone wrong woooha, but it just goes to show that any player event can be suspect while a live event is by design to be the story.

it just an issue that cant be resolved without financial investment from sony to bring in more LET and give the players back the game and let the professionals entertain us. player events would actually gain more meaning with a larger scale story evolving before our eyes again and not just coming up like messages in a fax machine. it would provide a sturdier backdrop to build pes within and help eliminate two years of rp going down the drain over a technicality. it would also give more options for let at pe's. which in the early days was truly amazing to have a random party and someone "famous" walk in. especially when it happened to more than just the large favorite factions.

#36300422688 03/10/2008 11:44:04 Re:Discussion: What is it about Player Events that makes you not want to participate?

This is what I think:

Player Events were awesome back in the day because there simply wasn't anything else to do. In that year long gray period where we had no live events, no story progression, and no LESIG... we had really kick *CENSORED* player events to keep us occupied.

Now that we have almost daily live events and LESIG storylines to pursue, the need for player events to keep us occupied as dwindled.

I may not agree with the above, but I think that's honestly why it's hard to run a player event nowadays. We have so much more to do than we did back then.

That said, I love player events, but I usually don't have the patience or interest to deal with ARGs and puzzles. I enjoy them for the RP aspect. The events we have in The Trust generally effect only us, any maybe another faction or two, like Davo was saying.

EDIT: I think I realized what I don't like. Most player events these days are ARGs or puzzles that take place outside of the game. While that's a cool concept, I prefer events that take place solely in-game... CountZero's Matrixulated and the Kings of Never's Cypherite event come to mind.

#36300422738 03/10/2008 13:20:24 Re:Discussion: What is it about Player Events that makes you not want to participate?

Unless they impress me at the start, I usually don't participate. Most of the time I see a player event it's more like a bluepill running around saying "lol u tk him 2da bar|?" and just...doesn't RP in a way that seems interesting to me.

#36300422748 03/10/2008 13:36:08 Re:Discussion: What is it about Player Events that makes you not want to participate?

I don't have a problem with Pe's as long as they aren't insane such as, "Send X program back to the source" which is an absolutely nuts idea. the problem stems from RP. RP doesn't mean you decide to be whatever you want regardless of the story. There is a reason every single character in this game was in a pod and then released, regardless of whether or not you decide to forget about that- it happened. I can understand the idea of rp'ing a program or exile somewhat - if we have to go against what the game tells us; but, don't make your character super amazing or whatever, be moderate about it. You might think that sounds dull, but if you can create an interesting character without giving them super-powers then I'm going to be a lot more interested in you than if you have the power to kill people with your mind. Also if you RP as a program, you should kill yourself when the Intruder comes around, and not run critical missions just to be safe.

I'm going to touch on the reinsertion issue very quickly. If you believed reinsertion was possible from the movies you are clearly not that familiar with Plato's Allegory of the Cave - which The Matrix is primarily based off of. My point being: I don't thing we should assume things to be possible if there is little proof for them, and then be upset whenever we are proven wrong.

Anyway, I hope this post was somewhat constructive. My point being, I don't like to participate in events that deviate terribly from cannon; otherwise, player events are great and vital to the community.

#36300422756 03/10/2008 13:59:28 Re:Discussion: What is it about Player Events that makes you not want to participate?

I tend to get involved in more things than I should to the neglect of my own storyline. :: Laughs:: Also, I've had a problem with people outside of close friends I RP with on a regular/daily basis snarking down my ideas, which frankly was discouraging. But I've had some success with "I Sing of a Maiden" -- which I'm finally getting back on track -- and I hope I can get some more curious folk involved. Granted, with that one, I'm riffing like heck from one of the "Matrix Comics" (specifically Manex's "Morning Sickness") but I'm enjoying it, as are the folks who've gotten involved.

#36300422768 03/10/2008 14:21:39 Re:Discussion: What is it about Player Events that makes you not want to participate?

-Collbard- wrote:

I'm going to touch on the reinsertion issue very quickly. If you believed reinsertion was possible from the movies you are clearly not that familiar with Plato's Allegory of the Cave - which The Matrix is primarily based off of. My point being: I don't thing we should assume things to be possible if there is little proof for them, and then be upset whenever we are proven wrong.

Did you read any of the official Matrix comics? One of them involved a man who was reinserted, and then reawoken. Those comics were before MxO, and are considered canon to the story. Rare created a paradox with his ruling out of it.

#36300422776 03/10/2008 14:48:00 Re:Discussion: What is it about Player Events that makes you not want to participate?

As a player who has participated on the creation side of now four events, and run three of them, I can definitely say that this is one of the things that irritates me the most about this game. It seems that a lot of people simply just don't put the effort into non-canon RP anymore. And while I agree that it has gotten more difficult now that we have (too) many (sub-par) LESIG events all the time, even at the start of last year, when I attempted to run "Black Capricorn Day," a marginally large event, with fully fleshed out storylines for seven different event characters, I ended up canceling it before it had run its course simple because other than the one time a bit of PvP erupted, I couldn't get more than two people involved.

The problem, I believe, is simply that people are to comfortable in being miserable, and complaining about the lack of RP. Nobody cares to join something they might like, because they don't want to bust a hole in their own argument.

#36300422788 03/10/2008 15:02:05 Re:Discussion: What is it about Player Events that makes you not want to participate?

What makes me not want to participate in player events is well thought out stories. If I get bored very early on, and realize that the event was not well planned out I am gone. People need to take the time to plan these things out very carefully. Rough drafts and dry runs are not a sin. Practice Practice Practice till it becomes fluid.

#36300422793 03/10/2008 15:05:59 Re:Discussion: What is it about Player Events that makes you not want to participate?

Eleutherophobia wrote:

The problem, I believe, is simply that people are to comfortable in being miserable, and complaining about the lack of RP. Nobody cares to join something they might like, because they don't want to bust a hole in their own argument.

I think you hit the nail on the head.

#36300422795 03/10/2008 15:08:12 Re:Discussion: What is it about Player Events that makes you not want to participate?

The only player events I've really been in tend to be very long and drawn out or extremely boring. In RP my character is a lot like me OOC, he likes to fight, that's his thing. Seems most of the time RP'ers shy away from PvP even of the RPvP sort. the few times I've gotten to fight in a PE I've been flamed and sent hate tells telling me to go back to Mara. So yeah, in Live Events I actually get rewarded for fighting, being in character and following interesting storyline, so there you go.

Besides that you'd be surprised how similar the jerks are in RP as well as PvP. Which is why I really enjoy when RP'ers call PvP'ers out for being unintelligent **jerks**. The only difference I've seen is that the RP'ers don't use leet speak and type full sentences, but it's all saying the same thing. So please, stop the god-modding and talking *poop* back and forth for hours on end and RP might be more enjoyable for those of us that would like to participate but haven't due to being turned off to it right from the get-go.

#36300422804 03/10/2008 15:14:22 Re:Discussion: What is it about Player Events that makes you not want to participate?

Tenshi wrote:

The only player events I've really been in tend to be very long and drawn out or extremely boring. In RP my character is a lot like me OOC, he likes to fight, that's his thing. Seems most of the time RP'ers shy away from PvP even of the RPvP sort. the few times I've gotten to fight in a PE I've been flamed and sent hate tells telling me to go back to Mara. So yeah, in Live Events I actually get rewarded for fighting, being in character and following interesting storyline, so there you go.

Besides that you'd be surprised how similar the jerks are in RP as well as PvP. Which is why I really enjoy when RP'ers call PvP'ers out for being unintelligent *fruitbats*. The only difference I've seen is that the RP'ers don't use leet speak and type full sentences, but it's all saying the same thing. So please, stop the god-modding and talking *poop* back and forth for hours on end and RP might be more enjoyable for those of us that would like to participate but haven't due to being turned off to it right from the get-go.

Back in the day, when EPN and Cyph first came out, usually we'd end up in heated debates in Camon C, fueled by the two opposing liasons working together to cause the confrontation. This almost always broke out into all out PvP war between the two sides, and it was really enjoyable.

#36300422816 03/10/2008 15:38:40 Re:Discussion: What is it about Player Events that makes you not want to participate?

I'm not going to beat around the bush when it comes to describing Player Events. (call out/rant post)

The majority of them are crap. A lot of them if you don't follow it from the start, you get lost coming in to the middle of it, and you just say, "Mmm, 'k no thx." And then there are some that are just straight-up wannabe LESIG. They copy LESIG, then turn around and complain about LESIG, and I know that a lot of people in A:B are either ex-LESIG, or people who think LESIG is horrible, and basically just want to run the show the way they think it should be run. They'll do whatever it takes for their events to seem "official" or whatever. That's really just on the border-line of annoying. It's the reason I never actually cared for that Player Event, and yes, I will forever criticize that little organization of RP just because of what it does. I mean, they had "The Architect" give out the same exact little pieces of picture that you saw in the .gif in Broadcast Depth to those on the A:B forum. RPing as the Architect? Are you trippin' balls or something?

It's not just A:B though. A:B was just the first to make their *poop* seem like it was official. The other PE's are usually exclusive to one server, small, and usually pertain to or revolve around one person. That's another thing that's a little annoying, is when the player events themselves, just turn into a ego-boosting event that revolves around one person. If that's what you're into, be my guest. Remeber those celebrity alts? Man was that ever disgusting in my eyes. I've heard everything from Killcode frag grenades to people who use incinerator chutes inside of office buildings (*CENSORED*?) to those who pretend they're exiles or whatever, when Rarebit has said himself (and intended in the game as well) that everyone is basically a pod-born operative. You're not a program, you're not a lupine, you're not a bluepill. RPing that is fine, but to me unless it's a certain circumstance, just doesn't cut it.

I'm the sort of person who gets discouraged if you use crappy spelling. Your ideas don't flow with the canon. You just want to hold PE's so you're the center of attention. You want to "revive" RP and when people don't come, you turn around and complain that RP is dead. You use the /e for the most trivial things, or completely god-mode out the *CENSORED*. You have a really *CENSORED* name(I mean seriously, someone with a name I can hardly pronounce I just avoid). You make up ridiculous scenarios that would never happen in the Matrix universe and for the love of god if I hear the phrase, "leave neo alone" one more time when rp drama arises I will snap. It really stopped being funny a long time ago*waits for someone to quote and say it again*.

So I guess overall, I'm really, really picky when it comes to RP. I usually don't out-right tell them that it's horrible and just ignore it, but jeez. I mean, seriously people. Bad guys that never die, or seem to "flag" just as they dash to the hardline with a shield so they can say on their main that the people did get a chance to fight back and that he didn't god-mod. Not like it matters, because people can just resurrect seemingly due to the EJP, which sort of takes the serious and deadly tension out of RP.

Of course, the first response would be, "Well if you're so perfect, why don't you host your own PE?" Which is precisely why I don't. So all in all, I'm sorry, but the only one who makes events that are seemingly interesting and actually pertain to the storyline are created by LESIG and Rarebit. Granted some of these events are boooring but I like it better than standing at Tabor West, where everybody stands there and says nothing except for the occasional b-*CENSORED* crack or insult. At this point, there is no other Player Event RP-wise that catches my eye and probably won't for some time.

-EDIT

And thank you for bringing up the RP-PVP arguement, Tenshi, because from what I have seen from both sides, PvP and RP both have village idiots. The difference is RPers never PvP, and PvPers never RP. Polar opposites, and when one of them riles the other up, it's a big debate over something completely pointless. I've seen PvPers deliberately try to get RPers riled up, but the RPers are guilty just the same. When I first started this game to until I was just getting near 50, I was an active RPer. I RPed a lot, and it was fun, back when there were some interesting things going on, etc., and after I hit 50, I wanted to experience the PvP side of things. I mean the majority of this game is just watching your avatar kick the *poop* out of the other avatar, so why not experience that to the full level? PvP is definitely enjoyable, the trash talking is admirable to a degree, and it's just all-around fun unless someone's just being a complete *CENSORED* or PvP stops and the bitching begins, but wait, does this sound familiar at all? RP is definitely enjoyable, the trash talking is admirable to a degree, and it's just all-around fun unless someone's just being a complete *CENSORED* or RP stops and the bitchings begins about god-mod or whatever, and in PvP it's clothes stacking or zergs, so like I said, they both really are similar, yet different.

*edited by admin*

#36300422829 03/10/2008 15:58:34 Re:Discussion: What is it about Player Events that makes you not want to participate?

Because Player Events, while they can be amazingly done and brilliantly performed, and beautifully written by there directors, hold absolutely no weight at all when it comes to the official continuation of the story. I play this game to be apart of the Matrix Universe. Not to write/be in a fan-fiction about it.

And that's not even getting into the motives of players events. Some, like A:B, are for everyone, but a lot are only done to boost the egos of those hosting and at the end of the day you know its going to go their way and you really have no say in it.

#36300422846 03/10/2008 16:31:30 Re:Discussion: What is it about Player Events that makes you not want to participate?

Archangel wrote:

Something like the Runtime Bit but for different NPC's would work nicely. Hint hint, Rarebit.

I would love using runtime bits. Even if they had to remove XP/drops from them, make them not usable by hardlines, etc, a tool like that would be immensely helpful in a player event.

A lot of player events get too complicated for me. A:B's opening act almost went over my head, but luckily they gave a story summary in the middle so that I could catch up. I'd like them to do some more of those for future events.

I'm not too worried on it being canon because of how much argument there is on what is even canon in the MxO story. I like most of our game's story, even if it often feels like a comic book (hmm...). As long as it doesn't go wacko and have little munchkins eat everyone in the Matrix, I'm okay. As for my own events, I will be more worried about sticking to the spirit of the Matrix, not necessarily direct canon.

#36300422856 03/10/2008 17:05:30 Re:Discussion: What is it about Player Events that makes you not want to participate?

Hmm.. nice topic, and nice to see some good points brought up on both sides.

I don't have much to contribute, but I'll toss my opinion out there anyway. hehe Basically, to me, PE's are both good and bad... and even the best ones touch upon both sides.

PEs allow creative players to not only showcase their talents but to, in the better PEs, really get the community involved. The problem is some of those who create PEs don't really have the talent to bring a PE to life. Sadly, having a good idea isn't always enough especially if you're trying for something grand. Another issue here is that many PEs simply end up as slideshows where you go from one "scene" to another with little or no actual RP or interaction. It's best when there is some sort of plan in place, and some level of structure, but there should also be room to RP.. and there are choices to make and chances are taken. Without a plan, events can drag on pointlessly forever and get boring very quickly. Without some freedom, you may as well just be watching a youtube'd MxO player video. (some of which are extremely cool, of course, but there's no "event" to them).

I also have to touch upon getting players involved. If you only use the boards to "create buzz" for your event, you're automatically excluding a huge portion of your potential participants and, as said, it's already often difficult enough to get people involved after you've started without them. Just using myself for an example, I don't mind taking part in PEs, but I don't read the Next Rene and Player Events sections often.... and I'm someone who's on the board a decent amount. Just imagine someone who never visits the board at all and how completely clueless they're likely to be. Base most of the event out of game and this just gets even worse (though I agree it would be great to have more tools available to PE creators who do want to do things in game).

As for the issue of story and how official PEs are. This is a tough issue. Generally, it's best to stay out of the way of the storyline because many many players do consider the official storyline to be king. I have no problem considering a PE to be "official" as far as player storylines are concerned and, quite frankly, they can certainly be more interesting than the official storyline. There's a lot of room to maneuver when it comes to creating your own story and for players who've been around a while, those storys are really what makes the city feel alive. Also, playing around as LE characters is a huge no-no, and creating tension by being able to create kill codes and death viruses at the drop of a hat is very very tired.

Basically, creating PEs is hard. Creating good PEs is even harder.... and that's coming from someone who hasn't even done one and is just talking from a participant's viewpoint. I'm sure the reality is even harsher than it seems from "the outside."

Edit: Oh, and just to chime in on the Cyph Reinsertion issue. I think there was certainly valid reason for many to consider it at least plausible given the source materials. While I like to laugh IC at the Cyphs on this point (and many others), and many have been able to just roll with the storyline punches, it was still a bit of a low blow.

#36300422872 03/10/2008 18:00:35 Re:Discussion: What is it about Player Events that makes you not want to participate?

I don't like people.

SMILEY

#36300422887 03/10/2008 18:28:46 Re:Discussion: What is it about Player Events that makes you not want to participate?

Because nobody goes out of their way to make the event noticeable in-game. If I got so much as an email inviting me to a player event, I'd probably go.

I think that's the biggest reason behind Algorithm: Black getting such a big reception - the sheer amount of in-game advertising it put in, through those random Operatives and the lieutenants. Everything nowadays is too focused on forum participation, or it at least feels that way to me because that's all I do now is troll the forums. Maybe it's a feedback loop - y'know, forum use increase leading to forum use increase.

Edit: And then there's the people that discourage player events by being overly analytical or nitpicky about such events (like thrashing a player for misspelling a word -_-). You can save your criticisms for after the event, but don't water it down by placing a giant magnifying glass on every minor flaw.

#36300422901 03/10/2008 18:49:57 Re:Discussion: What is it about Player Events that makes you not want to participate?

Because people have jobs, and Live Events IS Rarebit's job.

Planning for player events is usually *poop*, so they suck. People can't do what they want, like have enemies attack us while running objectives. We can't meet with big people or really be enticed towards a player event. Why? Because we all know each other and can figure out who's running the event in an instant.

What I'm trying to say is, player events aren't the best. Neither is Rarebit, but with Rarebit's events we can taunt and insult the LE characters.

#36300422966 03/10/2008 21:52:18 Re:Discussion: What is it about Player Events that makes you not want to participate?

I agree with nearly all the comments here.

I think the problem with PE's is that they are more like Graphic Novels in MxO. The creator just divides it into chapters and then runs the story with no wiggle room for unexpected events or free flow RP. They want people to react/act how they expect them too and if they don't then the story comes to a halt. I've been to a few RP events where for the story to continue I HAD to do something that was intrinsically against what my character would have done, and when you get railroaded like that your interest wanes.

The events that I remember the best are the ones where the creator/creators acted more like the old LE team. Logging on at random moments and letting the RP just "Happen", of course there were planned things too but I felt far more involved in the story. PE's like "The FIRM" run by the Tetra's way back were pretty cool. Or someone who RP'd a bluepill cop called "John Tanner", him and I would just meet up and chat and RP often, and when PeterForee logged on he continued RPing throughout that. If you are reading this (Whoever did that) log on damnit!!!

@ Tenshi: You would have LOVED when Espi was around with The Blue Order and he gathered up a pack of Cypherites to have a throw down out the front of a club against New Dawn and The Omega Syndicate while Euphy gave a live commentary on SI radio. That RPvP was full of so much win your head probably would have exploded.

Rant time: God modders annoy the crap out of me, NO GOD MODDING! And I agree whole heartedly with Ballak's rant (Couldn't have summed it up better myself).

If you are reading this my sig didn't work T_T

#36300423029 03/11/2008 01:50:44 Re:Discussion: What is it about Player Events that makes you not want to participate?

Roukan wrote:

Because people have jobs, and Live Events IS Rarebit's job.

Planning for player events is usually *poop*, so they suck. People can't do what they want, like have enemies attack us while running objectives. We can't meet with big people or really be enticed towards a player event. Why? Because we all know each other and can figure out who's running the event in an instant.

What I'm trying to say is, player events aren't the best. Neither is Rarebit, but with Rarebit's events we can taunt and insult the LE characters.

Except the difference is that in a player event you won't get ignored for insulting the event character. I've seen that happen way too many times in the past. SMILEY

#36300423031 03/11/2008 02:28:01 Re:Discussion: What is it about Player Events that makes you not want to participate?

I think the planners of player events think too big and It ends up either going nowhere or becoming incredibly tedious. Everyone should just be thinking up small errands and tasks and then giving them to other people. Things such as asking an allied player to assassinate a co-operating enemy player, or getting someone to procure or deliver an item for you. The times I feel the greatest sense of boredom is when I'm logged in for hours on end with nothing to do. Things like this would really help break up that monotony.

#36300423230 03/11/2008 12:26:47 Re:Discussion: What is it about Player Events that makes you not want to participate?

Archangel wrote:

Roukan wrote:
Because people have jobs, and Live Events IS Rarebit's job.

Planning for player events is usually *poop*, so they suck. People can't do what they want, like have enemies attack us while running objectives. We can't meet with big people or really be enticed towards a player event. Why? Because we all know each other and can figure out who's running the event in an instant.

What I'm trying to say is, player events aren't the best. Neither is Rarebit, but with Rarebit's events we can taunt and insult the LE characters.
Except the difference is that in a player event you won't get ignored for insulting the event character. I've seen that happen way too many times in the past. " />

You get ignored for participating like you're supposed to also =P

#36300423253 03/11/2008 13:06:32 Re:Discussion: What is it about Player Events that makes you not want to participate?

I hate to be the one to say this, because any responses will be predictable, but the reason player events are generally lame and lack participation is because they're based on this game, period. Put another way, a kinder, gentler way perhaps, everything that prevents MxO from attracting players prevents player events from attracting players even moreso. I'll not bother to elaborate on any specifics either way, but they should all be obvious by now.

#36300423340 03/11/2008 15:53:40 Re:Discussion: What is it about Player Events that makes you not want to participate?

stewartdaniels1986 wrote:

I hate to be the one to say this, because any responses will be predictable, but the reason player events are generally lame and lack participation is because they're based on this game, period. Put another way, a kinder, gentler way perhaps, everything that prevents MxO from attracting players prevents player events from attracting players even moreso. I'll not bother to elaborate on any specifics either way, but they should all be obvious by now.

Why does your mame and pessimistic posting style ring a bell o.O

Anyway lol i think (proc's?) reason about the size of events is quite true, detailed stories and plot twists are hard to create without serious planning and pre-production. Small generic tasks work better than long confusing stories with hidding plot twists and multi-layered meanings >.< minaly because as you said everyone is trying to do something at once or a group are involved when people are trying to work out puzzles and RP (talk) towards a particular senario the creator is looking for people get bored. I feel like i want to create an event... maybe i will for kinds return ^^ SMILEY

#36300423363 03/11/2008 16:34:52 Re:Discussion: What is it about Player Events that makes you not want to participate?

Danger_Frog1471 wrote:

Anyway lol i think (proc's?) reason about the size of events is quite true, detailed stories and plot twists are hard to create without serious planning and pre-production.

I'm afraid I can stake no claim to this observation. SMILEY

#36300424629 03/14/2008 00:40:08 Re:Discussion: What is it about Player Events that makes you not want to participate?

Davo wrote:

my view on this is jaded.
it comes from the early days of live. Many pe's were just self serving events to further a specific group,faction, person, etc. rather than to tell an intriguing story and help the community/game. just my opinion but one i feel was backed well. eventually it got to where i didnt even care to look at what was going on.
the leg10n vs prophet of the martyrs pe was a lot of fun because it was kept quiet and simple. few outside factions knew of or were involved in it. it easily kept 25 or so of us occuppied for an evening and it led to my eventual fall from zion and re-birth in leg10n. the problem being, it could not have been done as well or been so easily adaptable on the fly if it had been org wide or involved massive amounts of people. and roleplaying a zion spy caught invading a machine meeting was just too much fun
the other side of it:
i still remember when player actions did change the storyline. small events could happen at any time of the day or night on more than one server at a time. maybe frag collecting during big events sucked but at least an org had a chance to change things and maybe the shapers event didnt matter as much in the long run but at least some org had to take the win. maybe neurophyte was a LET creation but at least it came from the top and was open ended enough to feel like it mattered. once things like that were left behind, for good, the entirety of the story lost some meaning for me. now it was just any other game
over time, i have come to enjoy the story again and even tried to get back in to the roleplay circles but the final problem with the rp is elitism. wear the wrong tag for a few months/years and people will not work with you. not jumping into "their style of rp" and they will ignore you or push you off. and then lesig is and will always have corruption tied to this elitism. yes, i did benefit from such things as well. leg10n got to be the first to say anome was a villian and i jumped at the chance to share that with the community. and maybe leg10n used some insider info to get back at some elitist machines, talk about player events gone wrong woooha, but it just goes to show that any player event can be suspect while a live event is by design to be the story.
it just an issue that cant be resolved without financial investment from sony to bring in more LET and give the players back the game and let the professionals entertain us. player events would actually gain more meaning with a larger scale story evolving before our eyes again and not just coming up like messages in a fax machine. it would provide a sturdier backdrop to build pes within and help eliminate two years of rp going down the drain over a technicality. it would also give more options for let at pe's. which in the early days was truly amazing to have a random party and someone "famous" walk in. especially when it happened to more than just the large favorite factions.

Did not mean to necro the topic, but I completely forgot to mention the elitism into my list of problems, and you pretty much said it for me, Davo. "RP my way, or it's the highway" mentality already made me stop participating in player-made RP altogether unless I was asked by friends to show up for their event. Other than B3AR, who was cool with the RP /tells he sent me, none of the Tetra members were welcoming when it came to players from other organizations attempting to RP with the Tetragrammation faction. To be more specific, Beachhead was notorious for doing this repeatedly, which made me disgusted.