EJP

   It was always my belief that instant death scenarios would be too fast for the EJP.  Or that a redpill could potentially receive a lot of damage in the simulation and escape, but die from their injuries in the real.

   I find it hard to believe that any program could save someone from, say, the epicenter of a nuclear explosion.  Or something much more subtle, like a bullet in the back of the head.  Or decapitation.

   It was always my belief that instant death scenarios would be too fast for the EJP.  Or that a redpill could potentially receive a lot of damage in the simulation and escape, but die from their injuries in the real.

   I find it hard to believe that any program could save someone from, say, the epicenter of a nuclear explosion.  Or something much more subtle, like a bullet in the back of the head.  Or decapitation.

We have to consider that EJP only exists because the Matrix turned into an MMO, you know. I still find some "holes" in its procedure(like the nuke scenario mentioned before).

However, the main one I find is this: why the machines, with their almost absolute control of the matrix, don't turn it off now that the Truce is over?

We have to consider that EJP only exists because the Matrix turned into an MMO, you know. I still find some "holes" in its procedure(like the nuke scenario mentioned before).

However, the main one I find is this: why the machines, with their almost absolute control of the matrix, don't turn it off now that the Truce is over?

We have to consider that EJP only exists because the Matrix turned into an MMO, you know.

Of course you can, Trace. That's what we are doing here, right?

 MotorZ wrote:

It's not their technology, so they might not know how. And maybe they were in the process of doing so, and the Intruder stuff stopped their research.

Hum...a technology that alters the Matrix in such a way(negating death) it's unlikey to go unnoticed by the Machines. Sure, it's a feature only designed to make the "respawn" in a matrixy way... to add flavor, so to speak.

But I still find strange that, after the Truce, the EJP is still working...without giving us any explanation. It's just another proof that the developers doesn't really care about the theme.

Of course you can, Trace. That's what we are doing here, right?

 MotorZ wrote:

It's not their technology, so they might not know how. And maybe they were in the process of doing so, and the Intruder stuff stopped their research.

Hum...a technology that alters the Matrix in such a way(negating death) it's unlikey to go unnoticed by the Machines. Sure, it's a feature only designed to make the "respawn" in a matrixy way... to add flavor, so to speak.

But I still find strange that, after the Truce, the EJP is still working...without giving us any explanation. It's just another proof that the developers doesn't really care about the theme.

We have to consider that EJP only exists because the Matrix turned into an MMO, you know. I still find some "holes" in its procedure(like the nuke scenario mentioned before).

However, the main one I find is this: why the machines, with their almost absolute control of the matrix, don't turn it off now that the Truce is over?

So you're saying that EJP is automatic? mmmm, I always thought it was our good angel operator who activates it in the exact time

So you're saying that EJP is automatic? mmmm, I always thought it was our good angel operator who activates it in the exact time

Also, I still think that placing the EJP as an additional virtual layer in the protocol stack of network communications of the Matrix is the most practical and logical solution. "Firewall" doesn't really fit it's description, IMO.

Ejp is a process which remains credible while extraordinary degrees of cooperation exist between man and machine in the form of the truce and pretty much loses any credibility and screams 'this is just a game' when such cooperation ceases.

We had the perfect rational set up and for no gain whatsoever abandoned it!

Ejp is a process which remains credible while extraordinary degrees of cooperation exist between man and machine in the form of the truce and pretty much loses any credibility and screams 'this is just a game' when such cooperation ceases.

We had the perfect rational set up and for no gain whatsoever abandoned it!

As I understood it, the EJP, (which is a hardware/software system used in the Real aboard hovercrafts and has nothing to do with the Matrix itself), was created by Wright in spite of the Machines, and not in cooperation with them. In my memory of the story, the Machines "allowed" the implementation of this system for all redpills in order to foster 'goodwill' and continued peace. But Wright created it and was going to use it whether the Machines liked it or not. Now that it has been put into nearly every ship that has a human on it that jacks in, there is no way the Machines can shut them all down.

The EJP automatically causes the operative to be jacked out in the case of an emergency trauma. When the software monitoring the vital signs of the operative senses the sudden drop in vitals, it kicks in and retracts the conciousness from the simulation. Of course, no one dies in the blink of an eye, no matter how much trauma the body experiences. In the case of beheadings, the brain lives and thinks for several minutes after being cut off from the blood supply. It takes awhile for the synapses to stop firing, but they do start slowing down after the initial shock. This is what the EJP senses and it reacts accordingly. This is tricky, though,  because it must be done while the vitals of the operative in the Real are still strong enough that he will actually wake up and realize he is not really dying. On a side note, these same memories tell me that forcible removal from the system is supposed to leave the operative with a blinding headache, although I would imagine that after enough times have passed, this would not occur as frequently.

"Well then, there's no way that a death can ever occur in the Matrix! OMGHAX!" Well, the original writers thought of this too. Hence, 'kill codes' were invented (I remember being there about the time all of this came out and was 'officially' explained during Beta). If you want to complain about there being no threat of death, you may as well start by asking why kill codes have been made so incredibly hard to create and ridiculously innacurate and inneffective? The first one was used on Neurophyte and it nearly killed her, not to mention it was a huge part of the storyline at that time. The last one was created for the Oracle by a creature that no one had ever heard of before, who has since been destroyed so that the work cannot be duplicated in that manner. In my opinion, the problem doesn't lie in the EJP, but rather in the use of effective killing mechanisms and deaths.

But, how do you do this in a game? How do you kill someone off permanently? Oh, sure, story characters could start getting killed/permanently deleted. . .oh wait, they can't. The last time a main story character was 'killed', the game lost subs. And you can't permanently delete a character when they die, we'd end up spending half our play time creating new characters. So, what's the magic formula?

It is the wider consequences of any description of EJP that destroy its credibility as they undermine any rp or environmental conviction the matrix world can deliver. The issue is not actually one of how or why it occurs but instead the stumbling block is where and who is involved in its operation.

EJP is a necessary concession to the gaming nature of this medium, but although the physical side is unavoidable there needs to be enough scope in the fictional cover story to permit the imagination to still convey threat, cause, effect, consequence or reward. 90% of this game revolves around us developing or utilising skills to battle and kill an opponent be it rsi or program, encasing everyone and everything in a literal invulnerability shield has serious and damaging impact on any ambition or direction our in game characters can take, at its worse point it completely destroys the ability of the world to involve the player in any way.

The influence of where EJP takes place and Who is involved in faclitiating it becomes very significant in leaving us enough 'hooks' to hang a convincing rp world on.

Situating the operation of EJP outside the Matrix itself, either in the hands of yourself, your operator, your organisation or making such technology autonomous and independent of any concentual intervention literally makes us completely invulnerable while jacked in. Even Killcodes, that uber convenient route to success, lose all credibility here as they by definition operate from the 'Matrix side' of our character (something this description of EJP doesnt care about). In such scenarios our invulnerability is arbitrary, completely under our own control and the Matrix therefore becomes a sterile, unrealistic, unthreatening place where nothing can be achieved.

EJP is incredibly contrived as a means to perpetuate our gaming life, therefore any convincing description of it has to likewise be incredibly contrived, dependent on many other factors....all of which, at an imagination level at least, can individually fail at ony one time. As a process derived directly from the truce and reliant upon the extraordinary cooperative agreement between redpills and the machines, a process that requires communication and coordination between Hcft and the source is where we actually begin to glimpse a process that might actually work, a process that can itself be threatened by outsiders and therefore is vitally important to fight for. With so many factors involved the ability to disrupt an EJP becomes disturbingly possible (both from the real and from the Matrix code), the operation of kill codes shutting down part of the process is reasonable....EJP won't function unless everyone involved in that chain does their job, but even if they do there remain scenarios whereby it can still fail by accident or by design. That is the essence of what any description of ejp has to deliver, one the one hand a credible reason for its operation and on the other plenty of scope for murder/death/kill to actually mean something at an rp level.

The story has to give EJP official bones, there has to be a consistent and convicing back story that delivers the above requirements. The shaky and unreliable nature of EJP has to be rammed down our throats at a story level to compensate for its unshakable consistency at a game level, the imagination needs the fuel to make us determined to survive or determenied to think that making that kill has value. Kill codes cannot be the only way to ensure death, the players need to be left with methods to kill for sure too even if it never happens the possibility has to be there at all times to confer threat.

Sadly the story has failed to date in this very important area, EJP has been described as arbitrary tech, worse kill codes which had some meaning at one stage have been misused and even applied to programs (the oracle) so that reveiewing the facts to date its easy to conclude that we cannot kill anyone or anything and nothing can kill us etc... Urgently this aspect of the game needs to be reviewed and some creative path found to reinvolve the player and make them feel their efforts have some actual value.

So, in a nutshell, you're saying that if the EJP were given a backstory of being more dependant on the Machine's "endorsement" of the EJP, that it would be more credible?

And that if it weren't guaranteed to work every time, it would enhance the RP factor of the game? And how would this be implemented?

So, in a nutshell, you're saying that if the EJP were given a backstory of being more dependant on the Machine's "endorsement" of the EJP, that it would be more credible?

And that if it weren't guaranteed to work every time, it would enhance the RP factor of the game? And how would this be implemented?

The purpose of my post is really to highlight some basic rp needs of any EJP explanation in order to avoid the unshakeble conclusion that killing and/or death have no meaning online (with the consequent unravelling of every purpose we might find to log in).

It would be implemented through a consistent and sustained attack on the reliability of EJP in events, casual missions, critical missions and more.

I concede I am not the most creative of storytellers, It doesn't answer every problem I know but the positioning of EJP as infallible and freely available to all really leaves credible rp up the creek without a paddle, why log in, why attack anyone, why level, why attempt to fight back - if the worse consequence your character can ever feel is the minor nuisance of being relocated to the nearest HL the threat factor of the Matrix is somewhat underwhelming don't you think?

ShiXinFeng wrote:

So, in a nutshell, you're saying that if the EJP were given a backstory of being more dependant on the Machine's "endorsement" of the EJP, that it would be more credible?

And that if it weren't guaranteed to work every time, it would enhance the RP factor of the game? And how would this be implemented?

The purpose of my post is really to highlight some basic rp needs of any EJP explanation in order to avoid the unshakeble conclusion that killing and/or death have no meaning online (with the consequent unravelling of every purpose we might find to log in).

It would be implemented through a consistent and sustained attack on the reliability of EJP in events, casual missions, critical missions and more.

I concede I am not the most creative of storytellers, It doesn't answer every problem I know but the positioning of EJP as infallible and freely available to all really leaves credible rp up the creek without a paddle, why log in, why attack anyone, why level, why attempt to fight back - if the worse consequence your character can ever feel is the minor nuisance of being relocated to the nearest HL the threat factor of the Matrix is somewhat underwhelming don't you think?

Agreed, for the sake of arguement. But what can they do that won't impede the players game experience? If you can't kill off a character permanently, you can't boot her to the LA for twenty minutes, and you can't even apply the DE for more than five minutes due to all the crying, what can you do?

If you are only talking about this from a story aspect (i.e. leave the game mechanics alone, just explain it in the story a little better), then I have to say . . . meh?

Agreed, for the sake of arguement. But what can they do that won't impede the players game experience? If you can't kill off a character permanently, you can't boot her to the LA for twenty minutes, and you can't even apply the DE for more than five minutes due to all the crying, what can you do?

If you are only talking about this from a story aspect (i.e. leave the game mechanics alone, just explain it in the story a little better), then I have to say . . . meh?

Ultimately there are things that we can wish for that are easy to do and other things that are more difficult, yes there's a lot I'd love to see changed to emphasise the meaning of death and increase the threat and excitement of MxO but we have to remain realilstic....

The game is the sum of its parts get them pulling togther and its ability to excite, involve and challenge all increase but the pattern today is content and story developments are just being dumped on us with no effort made to make them 'line up', 'fit in' or convince.... when we have the option to do something positive that is both simple and relatively cheap its important to make sure we do it... a consistent commitment to the conviction of the world is the most significant route to avoid 'meh' becoming the epitaph for the whole game (at least as regards rp).

ShiXinFeng wrote:

Agreed, for the sake of arguement. But what can they do that won't impede the players game experience? If you can't kill off a character permanently, you can't boot her to the LA for twenty minutes, and you can't even apply the DE for more than five minutes due to all the crying, what can you do?

If you are only talking about this from a story aspect (i.e. leave the game mechanics alone, just explain it in the story a little better), then I have to say . . . meh?

Ultimately there are things that we can wish for that are easy to do and other things that are more difficult, yes there's a lot I'd love to see changed to emphasise the meaning of death and increase the threat and excitement of MxO but we have to remain realilstic....

The game is the sum of its parts get them pulling togther and its ability to excite, involve and challenge all increase but the pattern today is content and story developments are just being dumped on us with no effort made to make them 'line up', 'fit in' or convince.... when we have the option to do something positive that is both simple and relatively cheap its important to make sure we do it... a consistent commitment to the conviction of the world is the most significant route to avoid 'meh' becoming the epitaph for the whole game (at least as regards rp).

Well then, picture this:

You're in the middle of a heated PvP battle, one in which your team really needs you. All of sudden, you're hit with an LC2 and that's it; you crumple to the ground. You hit the recon button, and. . .

A cut scene starts. The world flashes to white, you hear voices and the beeping of the EKG monitor from your jack-in station. You can't see anything, but then you hear "CLEAR!" and the whomp of the defibrillator zapping your chest. You can hear someone over you doing chest compressions and trying to get you to wake up. Suddenly, the beep starts on the EKG and slowly, the world comes into focus. You see a nondescript 'doctor' type character from your ship standing over you saying, "Whew! We almost lost you. Now get back in there and finish the job!" Bam! Back to the Loading Area.

The whole scene takes roughly 20 seconds.

Well then, picture this:

You're in the middle of a heated PvP battle, one in which your team really needs you. All of sudden, you're hit with an LC2 and that's it; you crumple to the ground. You hit the recon button, and. . .

A cut scene starts. The world flashes to white, you hear voices and the beeping of the EKG monitor from your jack-in station. You can't see anything, but then you hear "CLEAR!" and the whomp of the defibrillator zapping your chest. You can hear someone over you doing chest compressions and trying to get you to wake up. Suddenly, the beep starts on the EKG and slowly, the world comes into focus. You see a nondescript 'doctor' type character from your ship standing over you saying, "Whew! We almost lost you. Now get back in there and finish the job!" Bam! Back to the Loading Area.

The whole scene takes roughly 20 seconds.

My discussion in this thread has really been directed to the rp/story justification of EJP rather than the game mechanics involved, its the least demanding to change in terms of dev resource and therefore probably the only thing we can reasonably ask for... The problem MxO is experiencing most acutely at present is that the gameplay mechanic and the story direction are not supporting one another, one or the other has to bend imo, each individual component may appear trivial (as this change does in solation) but it is the cumulative weight of contradictions that provides the biggest burden for RP, and today this is compounded by an apparent lack of interest in maintaining a convincing foundation for the manner in which our world behaves, fuelling more contradictions - we need to reverse this trend as a matter of urgency.

If we move on to the issue of changes to game mechanics on death then other considerations need to be born in mind, the impact on missioning on pve and on pvp. One of the propblems with pvp in particular is the inconsequential nature of death, as you point out in a tight pvp battle its quite normal to be anxious to recon and get back to pvp as soon as the system will allow, this ability to instantly recon means there is no delay whereby one force can bring an end to a battle and more often than not pvp goes on until one side actually gets too bored or too frustrated to recon and it dwindles to a halt. Introducing a delay whereby players cannot return to battle would insert a break which acts as the buffer during which one force can finally steal a victory and send all its opponents to the LA, a scenario like the one you describe could achieve that or perhaps even better is to sample the logged relative population of each org and factor a recon time proportional to org size (recon time=percent org pop*factor)- a degree of org balancing is then introduced which could benefit events and pvp since the larger orgs can only replenish their operatives slightly slower.

An alternate route is to delve into Matrix mythology and prey on the Neo 'death' scenario how about when operatives die they end up at the deserted station awaiting a ride out.... as the spread of available stations is less comprehensive than HL a delay is automatically introduced in your return to any one location but without you being rendered completely immobile etc. This EJP functionality becomes a grant (perhaps via some other agreement between all three orgs, merov to provide the functionality Zion and Mech to provide a suitable recompense) based on a mutual agreement independent of the truce and therefore still vaguely valid in todays environment?

Missioning and Pve become concerns however for these changes, albeit neither suffering to any great degree and perhaps the determination to fight in a manner which avoids death will ultimately lend more serious threat and excitement to these encounters as well???