28 posts · 2007-11-15 16:52:45 to 2007-11-20 14:56:03
#3630035399111/15/2007 16:52:45Is this what it has come too?
I can't believe I am hearing this, but does RP really dominate this game so much as to be so pathetic as what I have just learned?
Now recently my friend, Raz, told me he would like to join Dragoons, the faction he was currently in was Pluribus Neo. I have no spite with PN, and as far as I know our factions do not collide in any problems.
Now tonight was a live event, and Raz, still being in PN went to this event, it was an EPN event. Now I do not know the full details of the event, but I know he killed a lv 70, got the final killed. He was then told he could get a perpetual sword, or something else along the same lines...
Later that night he joins the Dragoons, and waiting for his reward does he get it? Nope.
Now I do not know if this is a dev decision or not, but he was told by Reposco that he was not aloud it for leaving EPN. Considering he earnt that item, and has his name on the kill, he is the only one entitled to the item. Just because he joined a new faction he is told he cannot have! This is absolutely disgraceful, and to think a man's done the work to get an item, and is excited to get it and told he can't have because he is spited by someone who obviously is bitter.
Raz is a good man, and I understand RP and its concepts, but this is too far. Why should he be victimised for this? Why should he be denied something he earnt!
Now I do not know if Rarebit made this choice, or it was the liason alone, but to think that this happens, speaks volumes of the recent shouts of favouritism.
What are your thoughts on this, and please think of Raz here, not only Roleplay.
TH
#3630035399311/15/2007 16:57:03Re:Is this what it has come too?
Chill out man. That's not LESIG's call, it's Rarebit's. And it usually takes Rarebit at least a week to get that kind of stuff out. Sometimes sooner, but a lot of times it's a few days. If it isn't here in a week, then you can complain.
#3630035399511/15/2007 16:58:08Re:Is this what it has come too?
It's a game with the liaisons, and part of any game is knowing how to win. If you swap organizations then you've broken the "rules" of the liaisons and events, and so you don't necessary deserve the item since you didn't win the game.
#3630035399611/15/2007 16:59:26Re:Is this what it has come too?
I'm PM'd Rarebit and like I said I don't know the whole story. I have nothing against PN so I am not angry at them, well they have no control over dev awards. I just don't like my friends disrespected in this manner if this is the case.
If it is but a RP disagreement fair enough, but that is a big reward to be playing with..
TH
#3630035399911/15/2007 17:01:05Re:Is this what it has come too?
From a completely objective standpoint:
If Raz get's the award then I will be org switching for each event. I have friends in all org's who would happily tell me what's going on. I switch orgs, get the final kill and go to another org.
Obviously, I will not do this but yeah, from a roleplay point of view you don't reward your operatives who kinda betrayed you.
From a player, thus biased standpoint:
Raz deserves the award. He got lucky, he should get the award. Orgs have nothing to do with this. He won fair and square. This is simply miscommunication. If people would know about this tomorrow Raz would've gotten his award.
My personal view on this: I was not there, I cannot judge what happened. All coins have two sides and so does this particular circumstance.
#3630035400311/15/2007 17:08:29Re:Is this what it has come too?
Raz should get that reward if he won fair and square and got the final blow, and he was still EPN at the time he did this, right?
#3630035400411/15/2007 17:08:56Re:Is this what it has come too?
It's Rarebits call and not the laisons. You don't get something for getting last him all the time. During the Jokerof- event I and many others got last him and got nothing. Lots of people were OooO you're getting something, but nothing came and we took it as Oh Well. You don't get a reward untill it's in your email, no matter what anyone says. And putting it on the forums isn't going to help, at all.
#3630035400511/15/2007 17:10:02Re:Is this what it has come too?
Oh and Phrack got the reward because he found the data. So theres the reward, it was for finding data not final blow.
#3630035400611/15/2007 17:11:08Re:Is this what it has come too?
Sphairo wrote:
Raz should get that reward if he won fair and square and got the final blow, and he was still EPN at the time he did this, right?
Raz isn't like that! He has been EPN for a very long time, and he decided tonight was the last night, how was he to know a level 70 would be there, and it isn't exactly easy to get the final kill.
TH
#3630035400911/15/2007 17:14:48Re:Is this what it has come too?
Were the rules stated properly, from the beginning of the event, or at some point during? Did the liason and/or LET char say that in order to get the perpetual sword, one must get the 'final' blow? Or deal the most damage? or something else along those lines?
#3630035401111/15/2007 17:20:32Re:Is this what it has come too?
I reckon it's just 'cos Rarebit hasn't mailed the reward yet. He doesn't do it right after the event. It's perfectly possible that the liaison hadn't heard anything official at all, and just thought: 'He hasn't got his sword, eh? He must not be allowed, I guess.'
Assuming that it was withheld due to org switching... If the reward was org-specific (and so far there's only one such reward), I'd understand. But otherwise it's unfair.
#3630035401211/15/2007 17:22:56Re:Is this what it has come too?
From what I understand the liason offered him an award. He also cusses me out, to which I take no real offence, roleplay is roleplay maybe...
Now I know Phrack won something, and I understand about Org Hoppers too, but as players above have said Raz is a good legit player. Now if Rarebit says he cannot get it, he cannot get it.
I just feel that this is a major injustice to a man who deserves the reward, and to then be blackmailed by the liason that if he doesn't go back he wont get the item is terrible. I hold no begrudges against EPN, or PN, just this one liason and sorry to slash on these forums, I hate that, but he is spoiling things here.
TH
#3630035403011/15/2007 18:03:50Re:Is this what it has come too?
On a totally unrelated note, TheHidden01, your sig is pure eye candy! Alot of love and cookies went into that it looks like. :)
#3630035403211/15/2007 18:07:22Re:Is this what it has come too?
He had to suck his willeh for it for a long long time!
I have spoken to Rarebit, and was told because he was not EPN at the time he mailed them he does not get it.
Nothing I can do if Rarebit says no /shrug.
This doesn't help the poor guy who is now forced to go w/o, unless he goes back to EPN...
TH
#3630035403911/15/2007 18:13:28Re:Is this what it has come too?
After a group of us took part in the event which luckily got us the Perp Red Eye, even though there was a party afterwards and we all stayed around for a while afterwards to talk about everything it was during the night I got the mail thus opened it on the morning (I am running on GMT)
Obviously I dont know the details behind the event and how Rarebit was going to (if at all) give out rewards, if it was hinted that he was to get something and gets nothing, I personally think thats wrong, but if it was just speculation that he is not getting anything because he is switching orgs then, well you cant go by hearsay alone.
#3630035420611/16/2007 03:29Re:Is this what it has come too?
Archangel wrote:
Chill out man. That's not LESIG's call, it's Rarebit's. And it usually takes Rarebit at least a week to get that kind of stuff out. Sometimes sooner, but a lot of times it's a few days. If it isn't here in a week, then you can complain.
Actually i was lead to belive that it was the liasions call if the player got a reward for his efforts but heh what do i.
-=Hlew
#3630035420911/16/2007 03:34Re:Is this what it has come too?
Aquatium. wrote:
Honestly, I think the more restrictions you can get on org hopping, the better.
Rewards based on RP events are for RP reasons. Raz as a person is cool, so this is not something I'm aiming at him, not at all, but I actually think it promotes the aspect of loyalty to your org, giving it some meaning.
I think org hoppers will obviously disagree with me.
RP consequences in a RP game? get out of here!!!
So all we have to do in game is suck up and we get what we want? Sorry im a PvP'er and thinking about it if players should get a reward for an RP event why can't we get a reward for say having 10k 20k 30k CQ?, because i will tollerate RP but i can't stand sitting at my desk at 1am GMT just to watch what is happeing and maybe a chance to get say a glimmer of the source or something then being told that you diddn't do it effectively.
P.s Im not a Org hopper im a true machinist every one on my characters is machine.
#3630035429311/16/2007 06:43:38Is this what it has come too?
ThHidden01 wrote:
What are your thoughts on this, and please think of Raz here, not only Roleplay.
TH
To be fair, I have to look at this objectively.
The event was crafted for EPN. As a member of EPN, he was invited to participate rather than just showing up like the other orgs who stumbled upon it. His participation in the event and eligibility for a prize are solely based on his organizational membership.
By leaving EPN he removes himself from the pool of players applicable for the event reward. Even if doing so afterwards because there's no grandfathering for prizes. If at the time of presentation you are suddenly a different organization, you are no longer applicable. This is similar to other contests where a runner-up receives the prize should the winner loose eligibility to retain the reward.
Ultimately, Rarebit reserves the right to issue rewards at his own discretion. Would it bother me if this happened to me? Maybe but not for too long, if at all. I participate in the events for the story progression. The prizes are incidental.
The fact that Raz hasn't launched a campaign of complaints on DN1 leads me to believe he feels as I do.
#3630035433811/16/2007 08:27:46Is this what it has come too?
Garu wrote:
ThHidden01 wrote:
What are your thoughts on this, and please think of Raz here, not only Roleplay.
TH
To be fair, I have to look at this objectively.
The event was crafted for EPN. As a member of EPN, he was invited to participate rather than just showing up like the other orgs who stumbled upon it. His participation in the event and eligibility for a prize are solely based on his organizational membership.
By leaving EPN he removes himself from the pool of players applicable for the event reward. Even if doing so afterwards because there's no grandfathering for prizes. If at the time of presentation you are suddenly a different organization, you are no longer applicable. This is similar to other contests where a runner-up receives the prize should the winner loose eligibility to retain the reward.
Ultimately, Rarebit reserves the right to issue rewards at his own discretion. Would it bother me if this happened to me? Maybe but not for too long, if at all. I participate in the events for the story progression. The prizes are incidental.
The fact that Raz hasn't launched a campaign of complaints on DN1 leads me to believe he feels as I do.
Dunno...I mean...its not like he flipped to Machines, Merovingians, or Cyphs...if he flipped orgs at all. And being rewarded even when you aren't in that organization is possible. Asamodai and I got rewards from Niobe when she was at Oroborus (I can never spell it), and we are both EPN.
Second. He was still EPN at the time of this, and left Pluribus Neo after the debreif. Leaving an EPN faction does not mean you leave EPN, regardless at what anyone may think. I'm a prime example. I'm currently faction-less, but I am highly involved with the organization.
Now...if Raz said he was planning to go to the Dragoons, its not final till he has "The Dragoon Brotherhood" above his head. Until then he's still an EPN crusader in my eyes.
#3630035437611/16/2007 09:00:23Is this what it has come too?
LtCmdr_Tsusai wrote:
Dunno...I mean...its not like he flipped to Machines, Merovingians, or Cyphs...if he flipped orgs at all. And being rewarded even when you aren't in that organization is possible. Asamodai and I got rewards from Niobe when she was at Oroborus (I can never spell it), and we are both EPN.
Second. He was still EPN at the time of this, and left Pluribus Neo after the debreif. Leaving an EPN faction does not mean you leave EPN, regardless at what anyone may think. I'm a prime example. I'm currently faction-less, but I am highly involved with the organization.
Now...if Raz said he was planning to go to the Dragoons, its not final till he has "The Dragoon Brotherhood" above his head. Until then he's still an EPN crusader in my eyes.
True but despite the similarities of the splinter orgs and their parent org, they are still considered different orgs. He didn't stray far but he still left the org that the prize was intended for.
I guess it all comes down to timing. Because he left EPN prior to receiving the item, he nullified his victory. Personally, I would have waited before I left but surely he had no idea this would happen.
#3630035439511/16/2007 09:17:41Re:Is this what it has come too?
I hadnt read this whole thread becasue im lazy. But...
This is what happens if your a non loyal org hopping S0B. I say *big cheer* to rarebit for not giving him the reward, Ghostpimp/wherio got an FM 1500 and shortly after switched to merv. You think that doesnt *CENSORED* off machinists?
I know Loyalty counts for as much as about an ounce of dirt in this game, but have some pride in what your doing and quit being so dependant on rewards or special items. I'd rather be respected for being a true machinst (or any other org) than get a perpetual anything.
#3630035444511/16/2007 10:05:12Re:Is this what it has come too?
Im close to saying something ill regret .. leave it pls
#3630035444711/16/2007 10:07:13Re:Is this what it has come too?
At an Unlimit LE, I got the finishing kill on 1-2 Unlimits. Afterwars Agent Pace congradulated everyone, and I never recieved any kind of award.
I don't think that awards are given all the time.
#3630035447211/16/2007 10:53:35Re:Is this what it has come too?
I remember one time (actually the last time I was on a story related LE) we were hunting for the Morpheus sim, and had code thingys and had to make calculations to get to the area. I started immediately and gave at least half the information that was needed, then a guy came and picked of where I ended (3 am I am sleepy and making too much math at that time is not really easy) and he told them the final answer. Just because it was final, he got a perp, while I did all the messy work. I never complained nor will I now, but I will note that 2 of the liasons hinted in area chat SEVERAL times I did most of the work ( thanks Novalux ). I am just posting this to show that the ways awards are given are biased, and not always accurate. This event was a long time ago and ever since I haven't been able to be in LE and stopped believing in the award system. I still have to say it was a good event and was definitely worth my time, which is why I never complained about this to any of the liasons or Rarebit.
#3630035449211/16/2007 11:36:13Re:Is this what it has come too?
People who load a support role during a combat event will never get a reward for the total-damage-inflicted/top-damage-inflicted/killing-blow categories, yet those who do get the awards probably couldn't have done it without the buffs/heals/res that the support players gave them. When this was brought up, the next week Rarebit held an event where the goal was to get Niobe to a Hardline. She was killed and was ressed twice. Two players got thanks, though it's unsure if they got any reward item. The relevant point here is, one of those two didn't actually res her: one did and the other res was from someone else who got no credit or reward at all. When this was brought up, the next update patch included a new feature which shows clearly who used the res. (The devs do listen to our reasonable concerns!) Other goals, such as retrieving data or being the first to get somewhere or find someone, make things more fair because then it's not always about loading as a tank. It's not a perfect system; as Leo points out, someone can do all the leg work and someone else get the reward. The point here is, as players we never know what prerequisite has to be met to earn the reward. Some events had no rewards at all, even though they were 100% combat based. The EPN event earlier this week was one of those where a reward might have been available for a number of accomplishments. Ultimately, a Liason doesn't have the real authority to say who is getting a reward, as the rewards are sent out by Rarebit or another Dev. In most cases, these are based on input from the Liaison, who should be very careful in telling the participating players anything that sounds definitive or like a promise. So in this case, the oversight was when the Liason told someone that he was getting a reward. Problems like this in the future can be completely avoided by Liaisons simply not over-stepping their authority. Instead of saying "You're getting a reward for that," he could have said "I will recommend to our superiors that you get a reward for that." Then, if ANYTHING comes up (org-hopping, mistaken identity, mistake about which action is getting a reward, etc.) where the player doesn't get the reward, it does not come across as a broken promise. All that being said, it's only a "for show" item in a game! There will be plenty of opportunities in the future to "get yours." So even if you were promised something and didn't get it, be a good sport and congratulate the winner and resolve to keep doing your best to get yours the next time the opportunity arises.
#3630035449911/16/2007 11:48:27Re:Is this what it has come too?
Absatively!
#3630035629511/20/2007 14:21:54Re:Is this what it has come too?
I want a sword.
#3630035632311/20/2007 14:56:03Re:Is this what it has come too?
Twice now the subject of this discussion has requested that it stop.
