All Dell XPS desktops come standard with an Nvidia GeForce 8800 GTS or GTX video card! (The low-end one has an 8600)
Umm... hello? MxO doesn't run on an 8800 series card! Under XP there is unplayable indoor lag and under Vista there are unplayable texture errors!
How can MxO possibly be CERTIFIED on hardware that IT DOES NOT RUN ON ?
Like all big corporations, it seems that Sony and Dell are willing TO LIE THROUGH THEIR TEETH to sell games and hardware.
I'll be sending an email to SOE and Dell about this, though I doubt it will do any good. Would the MxO community be willing to deluge Dell with emails about this? Even though I live in the USA, where daily lies from the media, the government and the corporations are expected, this is MxO for Neo's sake, the Truth should matter for something.
Official lies are still lies, Dell and SOE. Shame on you.
#3630035105711/10/2007 13:49:46Re:Sony, Dell and MxO tell the BIG LIE about Nvidia 8800GTX
Nice catch. I'm sure it was just an honest mistake. After all, if I wanted to keep a new player subscribed, I wouldn't lie to them and get them to play only two weeks or so before they realize they actually can't. That's both a miss on the potential customer and potential more misses on word of mouth from such a customer.
The big corporations ought to understand what I just said (money TALKS) and should correct it if they read it. ^.^
#3630035106411/10/2007 14:00:06Re:Sony, Dell and MxO tell the BIG LIE about Nvidia 8800GTX
This is rather distressing to say the least. About the only thing that has held me back as far as which graphics card to install was the whole issue with the 8800 series. Was this 'certification" before or after the problems cropped up? Another thing that has been on my mind since this all started was who exactly is responsible for the graphics card problem? As I understand it the 8800 series works perfectly with most MMO games except the Matrix Online.
I wouldn't be too surprised if the folks at Nvidia just shrugged their shoulders and said "well we made the card compatible to the majority of games out there, anyone else having problems should just adjust their system to make it compatible."
I am not sure what is the procedure for this, does SOE try to work out the bugs to make the card compatible or do they contact Nvidia and say "hey one of your biggest customers is having trouble with your product."
The fact that SOE has a certification slapped on by Dell to me sounds alot like false advertising. I really think SOE better explain this one before they get alot of angry customers on their hands.
#3630035106811/10/2007 14:28:22Re:Sony, Dell and MxO tell the BIG LIE about Nvidia 8800GTX
As corporations, I had no real problems with Sony/SOE, Dell, MxO or Nvidia before this "Certification" was put up. The whole problem with the 8x00 series having two specific issues with MxO made perfect sense from a technical perspective: backwards compatibility has been largely abandoned across the markets and SOE/MxO have no developer on staff skilled in the Discovery 3D rendering engine MxO uses. The blind mistake was made back in Sept. 2005 when no developer skilled in Discovery made the transition from WB to SOE, which probably had everything to do with software licensing. (Monolith>Lithtech>Discovery>MxO>WB>SOE probably wasn't a valid licensing path.)
So, we were at the point of "yes, there is a problem in both XP and Vista, though we would like very much to blame Microsoft we can't, and since we can't fix the issue on our end, it would be nice if Nvidia could/would fix it at the driver level but we have no control over or information about that situation, and if you want to blame someone then blame WB because we have no one who can legally fix Discovery." Well, that's a sour kettle of fish to swallow but at least the WHY of it MADE SENSE.
How they can slap a "Dell XPS [8x00] Certified" on the above situation is beyond me. It makes Dell look bad and I wonder what they will do, if anything, when this is brought to their attention.
Dell is like the innocent Bluepill who walked into Mara C during a PvP Zoned Event..
#3630035107511/10/2007 14:41:11Re:Sony, Dell and MxO tell the BIG LIE about Nvidia 8800GTX
Just so i get this right in my head , Dell can't be held liable because they just by the components they don't make them. Nvidia can't really be held responsible because they can't build a card that is compatible to MXO because backwards compatibility is a thing of the past. SOE can't be blamed because when they bought the game WB the Discovery 3D engine was overlooked and SOE doesn't have anyone skilled enough to deal with that particular engine.
So in essence Dell is pretty much in the same boat as anyone who bought the 8800 card (them for the certification sticker and the MXO player who bought the card).
Is this about right?
#3630035107611/10/2007 14:45:07Re:Sony, Dell and MxO tell the BIG LIE about Nvidia 8800GTX
I wasn't blaming Dell for the in-game issues, I'm blaming them for putting their Certification on something without actually first going through a valid testing and certification process. As for the rest, yes you're about spot-on.
#3630035107811/10/2007 14:51:29Re:Sony, Dell and MxO tell the BIG LIE about Nvidia 8800GTX
PS10N wrote:
I wasn't blaming Dell for the in-game issues, I'm blaming them for putting their Certification on something without actually first going through a valid testing and certification process.
Perhaps they got it to work? *shrugs*
#3630035108511/10/2007 15:14:33Re:Sony, Dell and MxO tell the BIG LIE about Nvidia 8800GTX
Havocide wrote:
PS10N wrote:
I wasn't blaming Dell for the in-game issues, I'm blaming them for putting their Certification on something without actually first going through a valid testing and certification process.
Perhaps they got it to work? *shrugs*
Nope.. XPS have the same problem with this game
#3630035110111/10/2007 15:59:25Re:Sony, Dell and MxO tell the BIG LIE about Nvidia 8800GTX
So how would they go about fixing the problem? Does SOE try to fix it from their end? Do they contact Nvidia about the problem?
#3630035111211/10/2007 17:05:00Re:Sony, Dell and MxO tell the BIG LIE about Nvidia 8800GTX
They will add a misleading cirtificate, but eventhough we are closer to our 3rd anniversary we are still celebrating our 2nd anniversary
Hopefully it is a mistake and was meant to be added to a few games from SOE and accidently found its way here, because all you have to do is go near the forum to see that there are problems. If not, I'd say this was as good a buisness decision as Hoover giving out £300 holidays to everyone who buys a £200 vacume cleaner.
#3630035111411/10/2007 17:08:13Re:Sony, Dell and MxO tell the BIG LIE about Nvidia 8800GTX
they fix it by pulling the certification off of the website.
it may lose the people who subscribe for the certification, but if they buy MxO and find out from us (the community) that they were lied to, then word of mouth will screw us even more than losing the subscriber.
EDIT: you beat me to it.
#3630035114111/10/2007 19:39:36Re:Sony, Dell and MxO tell the BIG LIE about Nvidia 8800GTX
Oh I meant the problem with the 8800 graphics card. Is it something that SOE has to fix or get in contact with Nvidia?
#3630035165011/12/2007 03:50:41Re:Sony, Dell and MxO tell the BIG LIE about Nvidia 8800GTX
Say what??? I was just about to buy the XPS, this is truly most uncool
This does not look good for MxO as a MMO as development is limited and I seriously doubt its a Nvidia issue. Can we get some Dev response on this matter?
Is this likely to extend to other newly released GFX cards? I guess we can only hope this is not an engine issue cause if it is ........
#3630035213111/12/2007 20:52:55Re:Sony, Dell and MxO tell the BIG LIE about Nvidia 8800GTX
No no no! Buy teh XPS! You know you want it! I have the m1710 laptop. It's awesome. I'm glad I didn't get vista, and I have a GeForce 7900, and it all runs smoothly for me.
I don't think the certificate was intentional. The company just made a universal one that the games could advertise. I guess I'd be a bit biased though, since I have an XPS. hehe
#3630035213211/12/2007 21:03:22Re:Sony, Dell and MxO tell the BIG LIE about Nvidia 8800GTX
Dell makes a solid computer (unless you get the low end) and nvidia makes a great graphics card, especially the 79x0 series which work great with MxO. If you want to get an XPS with a 79x0 series card, don't let this stop you, but you might want to let them know the reason why you are not getting the 8x00 series card and about the misleading nature of their "certification."
#3630035214711/12/2007 21:15:06Re:Sony, Dell and MxO tell the BIG LIE about Nvidia 8800GTX
Yeah, I agree with PS10N there. I just remembered, I bought this last year, so they might have changed the type of cards, etc. you can choose from. I think that was mentioned somewhere earlier in the thread. It might also be different for laptops, but I dunno. I haven't looked at it recently.
What I'm pissed about: They have black ones with blue lights now! hehe
#3630035256011/13/2007 15:43:13Re:Sony, Dell and MxO tell the BIG LIE about Nvidia 8800GTX
I would just like to stress again, that my only issue here is the certification. The reasons for the 8x00 series' specific issues (indoor lag due to CPU spike on XP and fully corrupted texture combinations on VISTA) all make perfect sense and on that point, no one has done anything wrong; no one has purposefully created the issues or refused to fix them if they had the power to. The only issue here, for this thread, for my personal feelings, is the certification.
(confirmation that some fact or statement is true through the use of documentary evidence; a document attesting to the truth of certain stated facts; validating the authenticity of something or someone)
The Dell XPS Certification on the SOE/MxO home page is misleading at best and false advertising at worst and really just makes all the companies involved look bad.
#3630035257111/13/2007 15:53:46Re:Sony, Dell and MxO tell the BIG LIE about Nvidia 8800GTX
I believe the lower banner is simply the generic SOE version and applied to all their game's main pages.
I forwarded your concern to Walrus and our new CRM.
#3630035258811/13/2007 16:21:46Re:Sony, Dell and MxO tell the BIG LIE about Nvidia 8800GTX
8800GTS on Vista isn't too bad. The lighting on faces and hands really bother me though. I don't get the texture problems too often.
#3630035259511/13/2007 16:30:38Re:Sony, Dell and MxO tell the BIG LIE about Nvidia 8800GTX
Sorry if I seemed angry about it, I tend to wax passionate about things I care about, but it can come across in a post as rage when really it was only annoyance.
Without saying too much, yesterday I had a lengthy chat with a friend of mine who was part of the production team of The Matrix Online back in the days of WB and Monolith. He let me know that a project he's worked on uses the Discovery engine and he knows of at least one other game which uses the same rendering engine. He got a very specific and concise description of the MxO issues with XP/8x00 and Vista/8x00. While there are no immediate miracles from the conversation, he said he'd think it over and consider if anyone he knows might have some insight on the issue that can be passed on to the MxO devs. This conversation, combined with the official notice of the Dell Certification issue and especially with Walrus' producer's letter mention of these central graphic issues in MxO, should give hope to 8x00 users that the ball is in play after a near-fumble. Thanks for not dropping the ball, devs.
Left field thought: Since the indoor lag while using an 8x00 and XP is due to the CPU core usage spiking to maximum, would it be possible to enable the second or more CPU core(s) to share the load and cut down on the lag?
#3630035260511/13/2007 16:44:15Re:Sony, Dell and MxO tell the BIG LIE about Nvidia 8800GTX
9mmfu wrote:
I believe the lower banner is simply the generic SOE version and applied to all their game's main pages.
I forwarded your concern to Walrus and our new CRM.
Hate to be a barren of a bursting bubble.. But Eq DOES NOT have the capabilitys to run cards of the performance level. Its easy enough to say to slip one in and play Eq or even Eq2 for that matter (which i think the cert was more intended for due to how its game engine can be expansively built and updated/graded a much to keep up to standards.) But I dare someone else to put a XP/8x00 into there PC and it be a new custom built like mines.. and try to run Everquest.. Oh the hell fire and brimstone that you have just unfolded.. Makes the East/West Bug in Eq currently even much worse. -_- had to stop playing Eq all entriley on this new custom of mines and go back to having two customs for different purposes tho one was for gaming (my newest custom) and the other for class work (old custom but soon to be heavly modded custom due to the online programs ill be using via remote access for devry and my GSP degree.)
