Staggering Throw & MKT

That's nice, but as I must have told you about 10 times now, you shouldn't have to customize your entire loadout to fight MKT's. What about MA's and Gunmen? Or Hackers who don't load up Ravager?

What Tiango means to say is Endo is strong against everything.

Arcanoloth wrote:

That's nice, but as I must have told you about 10 times now, you shouldn't have to customize your entire loadout to fight MKT's. What about MA's and Gunmen? Or Hackers who don't load up Ravager?

Well people that are so obsessed with killing MKT's i reckon they would go Ravager to be honest, also Ravager's are strong against almost every loadout. except maybe MA, but It's still the same difference.

the main reason is because they dont know how to combat aginst it.

MA and hacker are both strong aginst MKT if used correctly, only tree in the game thats truely weak aginst MKT is gunmen, and thats because MKT's have full ballistic defence. But even in saying that, a rifleman stands a pretty good chance of killing a MKT in a ranged fight.

What Tiango means to say is Endo is strong against everything.

supremegonkage wrote:

What Tiango means to say is Endo is strong against everything.

When E-Egos fly high.

Not at all he used the Ravager tree as an Example from my ingame examples, hence why i swapped Ravager for Endo

i Love the fact you need to reply to alot of posts i make Godgiver,it makes me feel loved.

Anyway you sit in the corner doing your rafter dance or whatever the hell its called until the Zerg comes Along xD.

Tiango wrote:

Arcanoloth wrote:

That's nice, but as I must have told you about 10 times now, you shouldn't have to customize your entire loadout to fight MKT's. What about MA's and Gunmen? Or Hackers who don't load up Ravager?

Well people that are so obsessed with killing MKT's i reckon they would go Ravager to be honest, also Ravager's are strong against almost every loadout. except maybe MA, but It's still the same difference.

the main reason is because they dont know how to combat aginst it.

MA and hacker are both strong aginst MKT if used correctly, only tree in the game thats truely weak aginst MKT is gunmen, and thats because MKT's have full ballistic defence. But even in saying that, a rifleman stands a pretty good chance of killing a MKT in a ranged fight.

And I have to add that this is what makes this game great. MxO is a tweaker's game. We work to find the tricks, backdoors, trapdoors, and skills that will make us strong in a fight. Like in the game of golf, if you can't hit the ball straight, you have to change your grip. In MxO, if you can't beat your opponent change something!

CR2.0 was also built with teamwork in mind as well. No one can be mighty against all. You need teamates to cover your *CENSORED*.

In my opinion, if they tried to make it perfectly balanced for each class, even if only to the point that there is an exactly diametrically opposed class (e.g. MKT is the death of Gunman, but a practice dummy for MA's), the combat in this game would have gotten boring a long time ago.

Do somethings need to be fixed? You bet your *CENSORED*. But do all things need to be equal? Hell no, and if it were, I'd quit fighting altogether.

CR2.0 was also built with teamwork in mind as well. No one can be mighty against all. You need teamates to cover your *CENSORED*.

the teamwork was 10x better in CR1 than what it is now. Now the game is basically about who can pull the bigger zerg most of the time.

Shi+Xin+Feng wrote:

CR2.0 was also built with teamwork in mind as well. No one can be mighty against all. You need teamates to cover your *CENSORED*.

the teamwork was 10x better in CR1 than what it is now. Now the game is basically about who can pull the bigger zerg most of the time.

AnXieTy wrote:

Shi+Xin+Feng wrote:

CR2.0 was also built with teamwork in mind as well. No one can be mighty against all. You need teamates to cover your *CENSORED*.

the teamwork was 10x better in CR1 than what it is now. Now the game is basically about who can pull the bigger zerg most of the time.

QFT unless the both the zerg and the poor guys/gals use same tree and can then prove their skills...

And I have to add that this is what makes this game great. MxO is a tweaker's game. We work to find the tricks, backdoors, trapdoors, and skills that will make us strong in a fight. Like in the game of golf, if you can't hit the ball straight, you have to change your grip. In MxO, if you can't beat your opponent change something!

CR2.0 was also built with teamwork in mind as well. No one can be mighty against all. You need teamates to cover your *CENSORED*.

In my opinion, if they tried to make it perfectly balanced for each class, even if only to the point that there is an exactly diametrically opposed class (e.g. MKT is the death of Gunman, but a practice dummy for MA's), the combat in this game would have gotten boring a long time ago.

Do somethings need to be fixed? You bet your *CENSORED*. But do all things need to be equal? Hell no, and if it were, I'd quit fighting altogether.

• Add some Thrown Defense Bonuses
• Fix the bugs (CC Tools not working, Resistance bonuses not working, UM Stacking with Find Weakness)
• Add better MKT Debuffs to Hacker
• Broaden the buffs in FM so they include MKT (This is only fair, seeming we are getting more debuffs)
• MAYBE, and that's a huge maybe, tweak the timers on their knives so the stacking isn't as bad.

• Add some Thrown Defense Bonuses
• Fix the bugs (CC Tools not working, Resistance bonuses not working, UM Stacking with Find Weakness)
• Add better MKT Debuffs to Hacker
• Broaden the buffs in FM so they include MKT (This is only fair, seeming we are getting more debuffs)

GoDGiVeR wrote:

supremegonkage wrote:

What Tiango means to say is Endo is strong against everything.

When E-Egos fly high.

Not at all he used the Ravager tree as an Example from my ingame examples, hence why i swapped Ravager for Endo

i Love the fact you need to reply to alot of posts i make Godgiver,it makes me feel loved.

Anyway you sit in the corner doing your rafter dance or whatever the hell its called until the Zerg comes Along xD.

Arcanoloth wrote:

• Add some Thrown Defense Bonuses
• Fix the bugs (CC Tools not working, Resistance bonuses not working, UM Stacking with Find Weakness)
• Add better MKT Debuffs to Hacker
• Broaden the buffs in FM so they include MKT (This is only fair, seeming we are getting more debuffs)

Fair enough.  I don't think anyone can complain at those requests.

Here some additional fixes I'd personally like to see as an MKT:

• Crippling Throw root breaks from damage. (Too low-level an ability to be that detrimental, sorry)
• Paralyzing Throw root does not break on damage. (Higher-level ability should be stronger)
• Sever Artery Movement debuff overrides Neuro-dart. (prevents stacking movement debuff)

Just some thoughts.

Here some additional fixes I'd personally like to see as an MKT:

• Crippling Throw root breaks from damage. (Too low-level an ability to be that detrimental, sorry)
• Paralyzing Throw root does not break on damage. (Higher-level ability should be stronger)
• Sever Artery Movement debuff overrides Neuro-dart. (prevents stacking movement debuff)

Just some thoughts.

A stackable root that doesn't break on damage seems a bit powerful to me, maybe change it to "Chance to break".

Sever Artery Movement debuff overrides Neuro-dart. (prevents stacking movement debuff)

MKT's have thoes movement downgrades so that they can try to keep a person off of them and fight ranged. A person who yas 160% movment speed needs to be slowed down to about 20% for them to be a relatively stationary target that cannot rush you to initiate interlock. A MKT has to stack 3 knives on a target to accomplish what a hacker can do with just bottleneck field. So unless you want to shorten the cast timer on sever artery, and have sever artery have about a -145% movement speed debuff on it for the duration of the debuff, the ability to stack movement speed downgrades needs to remain.

Crippling throw has a larger root timer than reuse timer. The only "equivalent" to that in the Ops tree would be Surpressing Fire, but that ability has double the execution timer, double the IS cost and half the range. Though, I'd already be pleased with the "breaks on damage" on Crippling.

GoDGiVeR wrote:

Crippling throw has a larger root timer than reuse timer. The only "equivalent" to that in the Ops tree would be Surpressing Fire, but that ability has double the execution timer, double the IS cost and half the range. Though, I'd already be pleased with the "breaks on damage" on Crippling.

Doesn't Crippling already break on damage?

I'd prefer to see Paralyzing Throw be a root that doesn't break with damage since it's a level 47 ability. I think....I need to double check...

Honestly, I don't use Crippling or Paralyzing Throw so I don't honestly know.  But I'm pretty sure neither break with damage.  Would someone check?  I'm old so my memory ain't so great.

Mave wrote:

GoDGiVeR wrote:

Crippling throw has a larger root timer than reuse timer. The only "equivalent" to that in the Ops tree would be Surpressing Fire, but that ability has double the execution timer, double the IS cost and half the range. Though, I'd already be pleased with the "breaks on damage" on Crippling.

Doesn't Crippling already break on damage?

I'd prefer to see Paralyzing Throw be a root that doesn't break with damage since it's a level 47 ability. I think....I need to double check...

Honestly, I don't use Crippling or Paralyzing Throw so I don't honestly know.  But I'm pretty sure neither break with damage.  Would someone check?  I'm old so my memory ain't so great.

MKT's have thoes movement downgrades so that they can try to keep a person off of them and fight ranged. A person who yas 160% movment speed needs to be slowed down to about 20% for them to be a relatively stationary target that cannot rush you to initiate interlock. A MKT has to stack 3 knives on a target to accomplish what a hacker can do with just bottleneck field. So unless you want to shorten the cast timer on sever artery, and have sever artery have about a -145% movement speed debuff on it for the duration of the debuff, the ability to stack movement speed downgrades needs to remain.

Both break with damage. I'm VERY sure of Crippling Throw. Another MKT I know told me Para is the same way.

Old man. =PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP

Only noobs use Crip anyway. 

/yawn

AnXieTy wrote:

MKT's have thoes movement downgrades so that they can try to keep a person off of them and fight ranged. A person who yas 160% movment speed needs to be slowed down to about 20% for them to be a relatively stationary target that cannot rush you to initiate interlock. A MKT has to stack 3 knives on a target to accomplish what a hacker can do with just bottleneck field. So unless you want to shorten the cast timer on sever artery, and have sever artery have about a -145% movement speed debuff on it for the duration of the debuff, the ability to stack movement speed downgrades needs to remain.

Yes to the shorter execution, no to the debuff increase.  It's not necessary for me at least.  I'm always running at 150%+ so one neuro or sever and I'm good.  Plus there's always Deadly throw. " width="15" height="15" />

I was talking about if you remove the ability for movement debuffs to stack from MKT, you'd need to increase the movement debuffs from a single knife. A player is supposed to be very close to being rooted when they're slowed by an MKT.

Arcanoloth wrote:

A stackable root that doesn't break on damage seems a bit powerful to me, maybe change it to "Chance to break".

I know gunman have at least 2 of these. Both in the SMG tree and both pretty low tier abilities.

Mave wrote:

GoDGiVeR wrote:

Crippling throw has a larger root timer than reuse timer. The only "equivalent" to that in the Ops tree would be Surpressing Fire, but that ability has double the execution timer, double the IS cost and half the range. Though, I'd already be pleased with the "breaks on damage" on Crippling.

Doesn't Crippling already break on damage?

I'd prefer to see Paralyzing Throw be a root that doesn't break with damage since it's a level 47 ability. I think....I need to double check...

Honestly, I don't use Crippling or Paralyzing Throw so I don't honestly know.  But I'm pretty sure neither break with damage.  Would someone check?  I'm old so my memory ain't so great.

Mave wrote:

Arcanoloth wrote:

A stackable root that doesn't break on damage seems a bit powerful to me, maybe change it to "Chance to break".

I know gunman have at least 2 of these. Both in the SMG tree and both pretty low tier abilities.

The Ballistic roots can't be compared to the Thrown roots, sorry.

And the Rifleman tree has a powerless chance on one, a stun chance on another, and finally one root that can break with damage.

And you get better range, accuracy, lower IS costs and shorter reuse timers, and one of them can be used in IL.

Zerotolerance wrote:

Mave wrote:

Arcanoloth wrote:

A stackable root that doesn't break on damage seems a bit powerful to me, maybe change it to "Chance to break".

I know gunman have at least 2 of these. Both in the SMG tree and both pretty low tier abilities.

The Ballistic roots can't be compared to the Thrown roots, sorry.

And the Rifleman tree has a powerless chance on one, a stun chance on another, and finally one root that can break with damage.

You're right. Ballistic Roots can't be compared. Why? Because two LOW TIER abilities in SMG don't break with damage. One with 12 seconds, one with 8.

MKT has two roots, Crippling Throw and Paralyzing Throw, with a 12sec and 8 sec timer respectively. Both break with damage.

Mave wrote:

Zerotolerance wrote:

Mave wrote:

Arcanoloth wrote:

A stackable root that doesn't break on damage seems a bit powerful to me, maybe change it to "Chance to break".

I know gunman have at least 2 of these. Both in the SMG tree and both pretty low tier abilities.

The Ballistic roots can't be compared to the Thrown roots, sorry.

And the Rifleman tree has a powerless chance on one, a stun chance on another, and finally one root that can break with damage.

You're right. Ballistic Roots can't be compared. Why? Because two LOW TIER abilities in SMG don't break with damage. One with 12 seconds, one with 8.

MKT has two roots, Crippling Throw and Paralyzing Throw, with a 12sec and 8 sec timer respectively. Both break with damage.

I know plenty of effective MKT's that don't ever worry about root-breaking. They get their CQ's just fine.

And I've used those SMG abilities, but they are hardly ever effective for PVP. The only truly effective SMG abilities, imo, are Direct Fire, Sliding Volley, and Full Auto Redux. Timers, percentage-for-success, and range on the root abilities make them horrible to rely on. I only really consider them effective if you've got a zerg on your side.


I'm actually quite alright with the way MKT is set up. Yes, it can be a very easy load to use. But then so is Sniper and Ballista, if used correctly. Different abilities are loaded for different styles of play. Just as different abilities are loaded as ways to beat those styles. There's always going to be a counter.