Tactic Booster Ahoy

exsuscito · 09/10/2007 08:48

An increasingly typical bout of interlock on Vector:

You miss (Insert assailant) with your (Insert ability).
(Insert assailant) hits you with their (Insert ability).
You miss (Insert assailant) with your (Insert ability).
You miss.
You miss.
You miss.
You miss.
You have died (Insert Nelson laughter).

I'm of the opinion that everyone should fight on their own merits, without the use of external buffs. I don't TB, and I don't accept buffs when offered them. Some are dependent on such things, and whilst that's all well and good and totally their prerogative, the ensuing trash-talk becomes rather redundant on the back of a victory-under-the-influence.

I'll never win the battle to remove all buffs and heals from the game, so instead I propose a simple, viewable symbol to indicate the usage of a Tactic Booster, shown here in a hastily thrown together pictorial display:

This doesn't have a great deal of practical applications, but it does immediately solve many a laborious debate, and would perhaps encourage reasoning and planning over a burst of green code in the arm, and a guaranteed victory (sometimes not guaranteed, which is always amusing). There are many bugs/fixes/alterations etc which take precedence over this minor detail, but I believe it to be worth considering.

Much obliged.

Edit: Apparently a similar thread already exists. As it's from a year ago however, I stand firm by bringing it up once again.

Ezer · 09/16/2007 16:34

Why is this even an issue? Does it matter if you win or lose against someone using a T.B? Why would'nt someone use the T.B's? Does it make you less of a player if you use T.B's or vice-versa if you do't use them? I guess I just don't understand what all the fuss is about. Are'nt you expected to use consumables during gameplay? We all have the same options, so if someone uses them, what does it matter? I guess I can understand not using them when you duel somebody, since you want to test your skills and abilities, but in pvp, who cares who uses what.

Maybe the issue here is more of the trashtalking that happens when someone lives or dies. Personally I feel it is a rather small percentage of players that are like that. Especially during pvp, I think with all the other factors going on during pvp battles, Tactic Boosters are among the smallest things that can determine whether you live or die. I feel it is the same thing on these forums, it is a small percentage of players that actually voice their opinions about the game, but yet, its this small percentage of players that get changes made. Are we gonna have some sort of effect for every consumable now that lasts as long as the consumable does on the user? This does'nt seem right to me, and I guess I am the only one who feels this way. Maybe because I don't pvp as much as others, but I don't see why this is even an issue.

PS10N · 09/17/2007 15:09

This is a great addition to the game. Thank you Rarebit! Visible signs of consumable use can only help the game improve. However, the idea that using anything in the game "isn't allowed" should be discouraged. Everything in the game is there to be used at any time, excepting only when two players agree on "duel rules." A player is justified in doing anything and everything to win any fight (but a duel) as long as it is not an exploit. Never do anything that is an exploit, is against the TOS or EULAs, but otherwise do anything and everything you can to win in any situation (but a duel) and feel good about it. Duels are a different situation altogether, but seldom can two people agree on "duel rules" anyway. Recently I was challenged to a duel and we agreed "Kung Fu only" and the opponent repeatedly used Karate mixed with their Kung Fu and tried to use the excuse "it's all MA so it's OK" when we had clearly agreed on "Kung Fu only" before the duel. The only "rule" I will agree to now in duels is "no consumables." People try to say that healing abilities "aren't allowed" in a duel, which is pure nonsense. Healing Abilities are just that: abilities. Someone in a duel loaded as a Doctor/Destroyer using a healing (Doctor) ability its no different than someone loaded as Kung Fu/Karate using a Kung Fu ability. If you are PvPing me, I will use anything and everything I can short of an exploit or breaking the TOS/EULA and, lose or win, I'm not going to feel bad about it! The kind of thought that disagrees is similar to saying "you can't castle in chess" or "you can't use your head in soccer" or "you can't drink gator aid during a triathlon." They are not rules of the game, they are just excuses made up by those who don't want to play the game the way it was meant to be played, but instead want a special handicap to sway the outcome in their favor. ("Because I don't like/use something, then you are bad and wrong for using it and it makes it unfair to me!" Nonsense.) It's the same mindset that spouts things like:

"I was about to kill him with my MA and he shot me with a gun and I died, therefore guns are too powerful and should be nerfed"

"I was about to kill him in PvP when he used Health Pills to heal himself and ended up killing me, therefore Health Pills are too powerful and should be nerfed."

"I was about to kill him in PvP when he rolled out and hyperjumped away, therefore Withdraw and Hyperjump should be nerfed"

"All the opponents who were PvPing against me got buffs from their Patcher, which allowed them to win, therefore all Patcher abilities should be nerfed or removed."

If you want to sell all your consumables and cancel all buffs applied to you and not self-buff, that's you're prerogative, but don't pack my bags for a guilt trip that I'm not going on if I choose to use everything available.

[Don't get me started on "blue reser" or "blue buffer" or "blue healer" in PvP. It's completely legal and valid according to the rules, the game mechanics, the TOS, the EULAs and the Dev's own words. The dead aren't flagged any more, so it's impossible for a resser to become flagged by ressing them anyway, so drop it please. Sometimes opponents are accidentally ressed because there is no way to post-determine the Org of a dead person, but you don't see the MxO Doctors' Corps posting about how it's unfair that we can't see the Org of someone we are considering ressing.]

Exsuscito wrote:

"I'm of the opinion that everyone should fight on their own merits, without the use of external buffs."

To which I say, buffs, upgrades, consumables and apparel are all part of my own merits - deal with it.

Ezer · 09/17/2007 15:25

exsuscito wrote:

Ezer wrote:
Why is this even an issue? Does it matter if you win or lose against someone using a T.B? Why would'nt someone use the T.B's? Does it make you less of a player if you use T.B's or vice-versa if you do't use them? I guess I just don't understand what all the fuss is about. Are'nt you expected to use consumables during gameplay? We all have the same options, so if someone uses them, what does it matter? I guess I can understand not using them when you duel somebody, since you want to test your skills and abilities, but in pvp, who cares who uses what.
Maybe the issue here is more of the trashtalking that happens when someone lives or dies. Personally I feel it is a rather small percentage of players that are like that. Especially during pvp, I think with all the other factors going on during pvp battles, Tactic Boosters are among the smallest things that can determine whether you live or die. I feel it is the same thing on these forums, it is a small percentage of players that actually voice their opinions about the game, but yet, its this small percentage of players that get changes made. Are we gonna have some sort of effect for every consumable now that lasts as long as the consumable does on the user? This does'nt seem right to me, and I guess I am the only one who feels this way. Maybe because I don't pvp as much as others, but I don't see why this is even an issue.

In the end, it all comes down to personal opinion. You are, of course, fully entitled to use every single consumable/boost/advantage available to you if wish. I'm in the tiny minority in believing that you should fight on your own merit, and not use any external buffs or boosts. This isn't a thread about removing the buffs from the game (If wishing made it so), or admonishing those who use them to their distinct advantage.
Countless numbers of times, I've either cultivated or been faced with a 1v1 during PvP, and the opposing player has TB'd in front of me before they'll engage. I have no problem with this, as they've made no bones about it and I can call them on it if their assisted victory comes with added bragging. What I do want to eliminate is the covert boosting. I'll give you a brief scenario to illustrate my point:
Players who will not engage when you catch them 1v1. They repeatedly Hyper-Jump away after you've chased them for however long you've bothered to, then come back and suddenly have no problem with standing their ground, and are beyond impressively proficient in interlock. They then spew the same old, boring, tiresome trash-talk about how much they 'pwn' etc, etc. This occurs every time you face them 1v1. You ask if they boosted on this occasion, and a denial is invariably forthcoming. Whilst this is their prerogative, it doesn't help in making the fight useful.
My point is, you can only measure your own competence by pitting yourself against others. If they've won because they TB'd, then I'd like to know so that I can take it into account. If they've won a clean fight, then I can review the fight and try to identify how to improve.
With stacking being such a prevalent issue, I'd like the opportunity to uncover as much secrecy as I can in order to facilitate unbiased combat review, amongst other things.
Sidenote:
I reside on Vector, where the PvP is vastly more sporadic, spontaneous and smaller in scale. I agree that a TB used in mass PvP is not a guarantee of victory, or a huge deal. A TB used in a 2v1 or a 1v1 is an advantage that I'd like to know about. For example, if I see an opposing MA and hacker who is boosted, I probably won't risk getting into IL with the hacker. If they're not, then I'll certainly give it a go. There's no harm in having this 'green pip' confirmation whatsoever, and only potential benefits.
To respond to your final question, I'd love to see an effect/symbol/written confirmation of buffs. If someone has received a CT/Health regen boost (ie, the ones you can't tell from looking), then yes I'd like to know about it before attempting to engage a couple of players. I'd be interested in hearing what you mean by that not being 'right', as again, I see nothing but potential gain.

I guess this is more of a trashtalking issue than anything else, it seems to me. If you lose to someone using a booster, then they are a dirty fighter to you, as you pointed out it was a clean fight only if they dont use one. You even said if you see them use one and then they win, that you call them out on it. What are you calling them out on, they didnt do anything wrong.That makes no sense to me. It is not like cheating by using a booster, but that seems to be how you are putting it. That someone that is using the boosters is less of a fighter and maybe, person. That might be what I mean when I said it doesnt seem right to me. Now anyone that uses a tactic booster is going to be looked down upon? And I can just imagine the trashtalking that will go on when someone using a booster loses. I mean, that seems to be the whole reason you guys want this. So that when you now kill someone who is using one you can bash them that you still won, or you kill someone that you always suspected of boosting, who doesnt now, because of the new animation, you can bash them cause you dominate them now.

Using boosters or getting buffs is not a secret tactic. Because some people are stacking clothes or doing anything else, to gain an advantage, doesnt mean we should change other things to help level the playing field. Those I would consider secretive tactics since they are basically cheating, but using a booster when you werent around when I did it is not a secret move that is going to make me a pwnstar.

Personally, I dont get involved in any form of trashtalking, whether I win or lose. People that do it don't concern me, whether its because they won or lost, I don't care. When I play MXO I don't let my emotions get the best of me. Maybe thats why I don't get this whole thing. I don't see why, as you stated, this tiny minority, has such a big voice to get something changed. So you and others dont like when you get killed because that person might or might not have used a tactic booster, is that a reason to make such a big change to the game. This is not going to make trashtalking go away or even make it a little bit better. Probally will get even worse. You said you see nothing but potential gain. I see nothing but negativity coming from this as you and others now will have a new way to bash others, but this time you will be in the right, because you saw little bips on thier hands and you still killed them anyways. Now you can trashtalk about how good you are because you won even though they boosted, which in no way is deserved upon the user of a booster, as it is not wrong, in any way, to use them.

PS10N · 09/18/2007 10:22

Personally I do look down on others who add points to their stats, to me they are cheating because they are using something in game that gives them a certain amount of security when fighting. They should fight on their own merit, not on the merit of a little number.

Personally I do look down on others who load abilities, to me they are cheating because they are using something in game that gives them a certain amount of security when fighting. They should fight on their own merit, not on the merit of loaded abilities.

Personally I do look down on others who wear clothing, to me they are cheating because they are using something in game that gives them a certain amount of security when fighting. They should fight on their own merit, not on the merit of a little apparel.

Personally I do look down on others who use luggables, to me they are cheating because they are using something in game that gives them a certain amount of security when fighting. They should fight on their own merit, not on the merit of a little animated item.

Personally I do look down on others who accept buffs from others, to me they are cheating because they are using something in game that gives them a certain amount of security when fighting. They should fight on their own merit, not on the merit of a little buff from another.

Stop the madness... use everything available in game that is not an exploit or violation of the TOS/EULA and feel good about it.