Awakenings are still happening!

10 posts · 2007-07-25 11:37:00 to 2007-08-06 13:13:00

#36300291116 07/25/2007 11:37 Awakenings are still happening!

An interesting debate has been going on back and forth for the past week over the status of awakenings.  The Architect said no more Awakenings are to be aloud.  Arguments have been flying all over the place as to what this means.  The machines are not allowing any more bluepills to be pulled from the Matrix?  Are machinists allowed to do the Awakenings?  Wouldn't this harm the machines if they keep the 1% plugged in?  What will happen to the 1% that rejects the system and nobody is there to wake them up?

I have thought about this and came up with a solution.  Simple logic and deduction will give you the answer.  Let's deal with the facts and what was literally said.  The Truce is over and no more Awakenings are to be allowed.  Well one perk of the Truce is that the Architect allowed anyone who wanted to be freed to be freed.  Zionites were allowed to operate freely and free anyone who rejected the system.

Now with the truce over Zion is no longer permitted that freedom.  However that does not stop the 1% from rejecting the system.  Now this is the most important part.  Just because a human starts to reject or question the system does not mean that they self-substantiate.  The vast majority of bluepills require redpill assistance to awaken.  Only 1% become aware that something is not right, not that they all actually wake up.  This is very important to understand because the machines can survive if they do not wake up.  Overtime the sheer number of these people would overwhelm the system, or the human dies.  This 1% being removed from the system was only another means of control to facilitate the cycle of the "ONE."

Now with the truce over that only means a return to the way things were prior to the Truce.  Zionites were secretly invading the Matrix and illegaly removing blue-pills.  It is best to assume that Zionites will continue to operate in that same function.

Here is where this creates a problem for us machinists.  We have not been given a clear description of what our goals are as far as from machine leadership.  Each faction has our own goals and The Collective certainly has an agenda.  However we pledge to protect all life especially blue pill life.  We cannot stand aside and watch blue pills who become aware die because we are effecient in removing any Zionites who attempt to awaken them and remove them from the system.  This is sort of a catch-22.  Before there were machinists the Agents were the primary protectors of the system, yet they still allowed for some blue pills to awaken and never completely shut off the flow of awakenings.  If there was ever a point I would question and need clarity on from the machines then this is the point.  We do not have enough information to go on.

So for now we will continue to do our job and view any Zionites running loose in the system unauthorized as a threat to the system.  We are not presented with a crisis at this time.

"Despite what might happen, I'm fighting for Zion. Because Zion is humanity in my opinion. It encompasses all that which makes us human." - Mave

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#36300294926 08/01/2007 01:36 Re:Awakenings are still happening!

IC:

Your arguments amuse me and those of us who know what is at the core of all of this.  You can talk about Machine and Man, and philosophize until you're blue as Cypherites in the face.  It really doesn't matter.

This is about free men and women.  This is about idle threats and the henchmen arguing and killing each other while the powers that be send us to our deaths like sacrificial pawns.  This is why the Prophets of Peace left Zion and why our mentor, the man you all so fondly remember as Morpheus did the same.  It's a chess game, but we can't die in the simulation.  Fate continues to reward OUR understanding; the only way to kill each other is to do it in the real.  What a dilemma for our former Machinist comrades, or as I like to refer to them (Machine invention or no) the Gestapo.

Zion is Zion and worth defending because those men and women are free.  It is in the nature of a free person to continue to defend their freedom, regardless of the situation they are put in.  Talk all you want of terrorism and add whatever sort of spin you'd like, but you know this to be the truth.  Bluepills don't have a clue as to what's going on, so they aren't about to be fighting anything but each other in pointless wars and street violence, though...it would be interesting to know who would side with who when presented with the truth of their situation.

Machinists claim to want to protect life at all costs; bluepills must have the priority in their eyes.  From my observations, you are the biggest bunch of murderers around.  You thrive on your ability to kill because it is all you are good at.  It is in your nature to end life, not preserve it.  It doesn't matter who is free and who isn't.  It's all just meat to you, and everyone wants a piece.  You make your high and mighty arguments, but you are no different than your ancestors.

Thankfully, none of it matters.  You have no real impact, no real way of stopping anything of significance.  You are assigned a battlefield, and you hurry to kill, praying that your commanders got you there on time.  You couldn't stop New Zion from being created; it was discovered too late.  Now, your masters in their knee-jerk reaction - so unlike a Machine - drive you to "treat any Zionist operative as hostile".  They know about EJS, but they still assign you this busy work?  Do they honestly think you can do a better job of stopping Zion from freeing all the bluepills they can than their Agents can?  Though let us not forget; not even the mighty System Agents could stop the awakenings pre-Truce.  It wasn't in their capability.  It was part of the system of control.

So what's changed, oh mighty Machinist hordes?  Nothing, and the Machines know it.  They can't do a *CENSORED* thing but fire pointless bullets and throw pointless blows.  The true battle will be in the Real, where we fight for keeps.  That's why they reacted the way they did.  That's why we're at "war" now.

We'll see who sides with who when the REAL fighting goes down.  Until then:

We are watching...we are waiting. - The Prophets of Peace

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#36300295205 08/01/2007 12:03 Re:Awakenings are still happening!

IC:

So much like arguing with children; their limited understanding of things can make it frustrating.  One simply has to let the children live, and hope they glean a better understanding as they grow.  Unfortunately, when your parents are the Machines, and you've accepted their brainwashing even in the pods, we can't really expect you all to grow, now can we.  You truly are Machines; as long as your programming remains "efficient", no further updates are needed.

No one needs to die to show how murderous you are.  You certainly don't need to insult everyone's intelligence by pretending that if EJS didn't exist, you wouldn't feel absolute relish in your work.  Let me put it this way:  if EJS didn't exist, and you kept on keepin' on, who would there be left to have a truce with?  Don't worry, you don't need to answer that...you're killers, it's not in your programming.

Supporting the truce doesn't make anyone better than anything.  Those with true understanding (and the ability to discern) understood what the Truce was from Day 1: a lie, another form of control.  Keep Zion on our side, promoting peace at the barrel of a gun, give 'em the 1%, and pray to Deus Ex that they don't interpret the Truce differently.  Now that the Mechies are losing control over the free populace, they're scared, or at least, scared in the Machine sense of the word.  They should be.  With a force of over 500,000 useless Sentinels stationed outside Zion, Sentinels that couldn't stop New Zion's creation (all that tech for nothing, lol), the poor dears are left with nothing other than to search the Tunnels to dispatch a HvCFT here, a HvCFT there.

In other news, do you have any idea how long it takes for a freedmind to be trained to active-duty military status?  Now compare that to the amount of awakenings actually taking place right now.  Anyone with a brain - or, CPU - can see that building an army isn't exactly going to work very well.  It's going to be a very small army.

No, the truth of the matter is a lot more simple than armies or wars, etc.  The reason we do what we do is because we stood horrified at the truth of the situation.  We weren't tempted by false Matrix power, or delusional in thinking we were somehow better than our forefathers.  We woke up and saw that billions of innocent lives were enslaved into powering an empire that shouldn't exist.  We learned about the past, saw what happened, and wondered why it all had to go down and why it still was.  We decided enough was enough, that SOMEONE had to show enslaved humanity the truth, and let them make the choice without interference.  Call it biased if you want to, call it "our truth", but deep down in places you don't like to talk about, you know I'm right.  You know the truth.

So, awakening bluepills or perpetual murder...I think it's plain to see who has the high moral ground here.  The awakenings continue, and the "escalating probability of disaster" does too.  Take your best shot, traitors of free humanity.

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#36300295267 08/01/2007 13:34 Re:Awakenings are still happening!

((Thank you.))

EDIT:  My last line read "traitors of humanity", but I meant "traitors of free humanity".  Game on!  SMILEY

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#36300295464 08/01/2007 20:43 Re:Awakenings are still happening!

OOC:

As far as I know, we're operating under the assumption that Machinists were essentially disillusioned Zionists who left Zion and approached the Machines about a job.  As for awakenings, the deal concerning the One was for Zion.  I can't think of a similar deal for Machinists, though I imagine Machine awakenings would be counterproductive to the System.

The System has defenders, but employs Operatives as well.  Why, I can't say for sure, other than to give Zion a human face to beat on.  It's much more difficult to villainize a human being, especially when trying to be moral about things.  Also, a counter-viewpoint may sway the minds of many a Zionist, and has...even the staunchest ones.  I think the Machinists could give a better response.  Just my take.

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#36300296287 08/03/2007 13:49 Re:Awakenings are still happening!

IC: 

Well, ok, but what about those who are free of the Matrix?  Is that freedom subjective as well?  Dangerous argument, eh, because if you say, "No, Soulfire, those minds are free", then you, by proxy, admit that the minds in the Matrix are not free.  It's ok, I won't ask you to compromise your beliefs.  Just...chew on it for a moment.

PoP has never been concerned with the 1%.  We see all bluepills as the same; imprisoned with no knowledge of what is ACTUALLY happening.  So, we give them the choice.  If the mind wishes to remain, they do.  Morpheus himself ran into many who chose the bluepill, and did not force them into reality.  You can say, oh, but what about the code bombs...yes, there were code-bombs.  Those where the actions of a desperate man who desperately wanted what any man or woman would want:  the right to bury their dead in the place of their choosing.  C'mon, if someone stole the body of your good friend, wouldn't you be a bit vindictive?  No?  What if it was the body of your mother?  Or even...savior.  Hard to think about.  Let's say you had the power to get it back...would you refuse the opportunity?  I know some would, some wouldn't.  I fall into the "would" category.  I think Morpheus knew more than he was letting on, otherwise, why go on a fruitless campaign?

Good to see some of Zion still cares about freeing bluepills for freedom's sake, and not just to further an agenda.

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#36300296508 08/04/2007 01:48 Re:Awakenings are still happening!

((Anyone else enjoying this as much as I am?))

IC: 

I can certainly concede that Morpheus' actions could be viewed as the actions of a madman.  I don't agree with that viewpoint, but I acknowledge it.  At last we come to the "Morphite" position, which is fully known by some, misinterpreted by many more.

Though many may disagree, there's a difference between "murdering millions of bluepills" and "threatening the System".  Yes, many did die, and many more will be grown to replace them.  To call such an argument diabolical, well, try another on for size:  What would you have to say about the feeding of the dead intravenously to the living, fueling new, cloned bodies to replace the dead ones?  Who did Morpheus kill?  Oh, but he sure was the troublemaker, wasn't he?  The Machines recognized the threat, knew what the man was capable of in the name of the One, knew his history.  He had to be stopped.  His work continues, and believe me, had we the capability to produce code-bombs of catastrophic size (working on it, one option), your precious Matrix simulation would be reduced to nothing but scraps of code.

I am not concerned with being a savior.  None of us "terrorists" are, though perhaps I shouldn't be speaking for every one.  I do make a case for Zion, for the freedminds, for their right to exist seperately and safely from the System.  I make a case for their families, born free, truly free.  Their freedom could be true freedom, if not for the shackle of the Machine Empire.  Their existence is always in question, simply because of their belief that other human beings should be granted the chance to taste TRUE freedom.

You know what I have never heard of taking place in Zion?  Riots.  Revolution.  People coming together to say in one loud voice, "Awakenings are wrong, they enganger us, we're tired of it, no more!"  Such a thing doesn't happen, because despite all the different beliefs and viewpoints represented within that glorious city, there is one thing that unites them.

"As long as the Matrix exists, the human race can never be free."

Call us cave-monkeys.  Call our existence despicable, uncomfortable, inconvenient, unnecessary.  At least we haven't fooled ourselves into thinking that a computer simulation is a real life.  We know perfectly well what would happen if suddenly the Matrix feed shut off.  Bye bye, Exile programs.  Bye bye, all powerful Agents.  Bye bye, Matrix powers.  Bye bye, false lives.  Welcome back to reality, folks.  What a day that would be, as you writhe and flap around, anxious for your next "fix", not knowing what to do with yourselves, mourning the "deaths" of your false friends and relatives.  Pathetic.

Even more pathetic?  Defending such a system.  No, wait.  How about saying it's even worth defending?  No, even better.  What about retaliating for losing it?  Disgusting.

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#36300297070 08/05/2007 03:26 Re:Awakenings are still happening!

IC:

Aww, did I touch a nerve, Illyria?  Careful, your emotions are showing...

Again, I ask you all:  During all that rucus he caused, who did Morpheus, or by proxy, Morphites, kill?  Fresh clones are harvested daily to replace the dead ones every single day.  Every single bluepill that was lost during that campaign has been replaced, unless the optimal number of bluepills producing power has changed.  Or are you making a religious argument, that the clones have souls?  Let me assure you, the Machines aren't making one; to them, a dead bluepill is simply a battery that needs replacing.  After having done it for centuries, one can safely assume that the process has been refined.

No, I think the real reason the Machines got all huffy was because of what damage Morpheus' actions might have done to the System:  it becomes rather difficult to create a perpetual 1999 when a powerful psychological event forever imprints itself upon the mind.  Goodbye 1%, hello 100%.  A code-bomb certainly does the job; your very reality peeling away from you to expose the truth of your situation sounds like a pretty bad day to me.

Your blanket statements make me wonder how your masters saw any logic within you in the first place!  You assume that in my bluepill life I was a loner; you take that and run with it, never asking yourself, "Do I actually know what sort of man he was back then?"  You assume that there are no riots or revolution in Zion because people simply leave.  So do you mean to tell me that not one person within the gates of Zion exists that is willing to take their dissenting opinion and seek out others in an attempt to change the system?  You don't even live there!  Where do you people come up with this crap?

Do you honestly believe that the realities of our total situation are lost on me, or for that matter, Zionists?  That we don't know what the Real is like?  I'm "inhuman and sick", but even this "sociopath" knows better than to release every bluepill from the Matrix at once.  Our overall goal is to present the choice to every bluepill we can accomodate.  If we are denied that, then the only solution that exists is to fight for that opportunity.  Unfortunately, this seems to be the truth of our situation.  Every man, woman, and child that calls themself a Zionite has the right to live free.  If we are denied that, then we must fight off our antagonist.  It is simple logic.

Or are we back to "we lost the war, the world belongs to the Machines, we have to abide by the rules" again?  No, we don't!  We don't have to do anything that affects us negatively, and if even one person thinks that the Matrix is a bad idea, they have the right and opportunity to fight for that belief.  This is what is meant when Fellini said that freedom is not a gift; it must be taken.

So, unless the Machines are willing to relinquish control and move towards equality, neither side will know peace.  It isn't as simple as, put Humanity in a cage, and we'll provide the sustenance and entertainment.  Some of Humanity is out now, and there's no going back...though I suppose one could just eliminate that part of Humanity.  Then everything goes back to normal, right?  Ha!

Those who do not have power over the story that dominates their lives, power to retell it, rethink it, deconstruct it, joke about it, and change it as times change, truly are powerless, because they cannot think new thoughts. - Salman Rushdie

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#36300297733 08/06/2007 00:40 Re:Awakenings are still happening!
IC:

How long will you ignore this fundamental fact of the Matrix, Machinists? It seems like the word "clone" has become taboo...no one wants to go near it. It took a Merovingian operative to try and tackle the issue. Unfortunately, Barloke, I never took a stance as to bluepill clones having souls or not. I do have an overall stance though, one I employ on bluepill and Machinist Operative alike: after studying us for so long and uncovering the way the human mind works, I have come to the conclusion that the Machines know what it means to present a human face to their antagonist. It is much harder psychologically for a human to kill another human than it is to destroy a machine.

You Machinists take that human face and run with it, poked and prodded along by the words of your masters. "We must defend the bluepills! We must protect Humanity!" Who are you protecting? You call them people, even delude yourselves into calling them former friends and family. THEY ARE CLONES! YOU ARE CLONES! Family attachment can only be discovered through genetic testing, and until that happens, you cannot assume you are related to anyone! Your former lives meant nothing, nothing! All that matters is the way you live your lives now, and you have chosen to defend a System that thrives on deceit, and survives on murder.

You call us Morphites (and many Zionists) killers, terrorists. You accuse us of killing innocents. The Machines have been systematically terminating human beings in the real and in the Matrix for hundreds of years at their whim! Where is the grief for those lost lives? The remembrance? The accountability? Or are they just eggs, broken to create an almighty omelette?

On another note, Sattakan, you poor, deluded fool...the argument you present concerning trust issues is amusing at best. The Machines showed mercy? The only thing that stopped them was a Zionist named Neo who did what he thought was best at the time for a city full of free souls! He bought Zion their freedom, took it, if you will, with Smith as his bargaining chip. In the next act, the Machines post double the number of Sentinels outside the gates of Zion to force them into abiding by the Truce. When Zion found out, the city was dually enraged and terrified, and many began wondering if the Machines had broken the Truce. However, without force and authority to back them up, Zion was forced to back down, OR SO IT SEEMED. Ha, you have no idea how much I relished that last statement. Looks like Lock is good for something after all. Doesn't mean I like him any better...

Bye bye, useless Sentinels. There was an attack recently; stopped in its tracks. Lovin' it...probably a probing effort designed to test the defenses, but a few more dead search-and-destroyers is fine by me. So much for the Machines' total control. Now, with less authority than they started with, they rouse their Human servants into action. Truce-breakers! Kill the Truce-breakers! I'm sorry, but I have a hard time believing that this is the whole truth; the situation is just too laughable. The Truce could have continued regardless of New Zion, which, as we must remember, was a defensive reaction and counterpoint to the offensive motion set forth by the Machines.

Where do you people get these assumptions from? Your masters? Surely there exists one Machinist who suspects what I do, who has seen past the crap and is seeking the truth of all of this. "Zion thinks their lives are more precious than bluepills." Such moronic thinking; if this was the case, why would Zionists risk their lives again and again to free them? To bolster an army? What good is that when there is no guarantee that you'll go in with one operative hot, and come out two operatives clean? So much like arguing with children. I concede that there are subversive elements out there plotting the destruction of the Machines. They will probably fail, and I hope for all our sakes that they do. We have not yet exhausted all avenues for peace just yet. Granted, this is coming from a follower of Morpheus, so I'll just assume my credibility is shot.

Zion does not have the resources for a prolonged engagement against the Machine empire. My personal analysis of the Machines' offensive capability indicates that the employment of Sentinels is a cheap and time-tested method of waging war. If rendered ineffective, the Machine offensive war machine must spend additional resources to create another method. Naturally, this is something they wish to avoid. So far, New Zion has managed to repel Sentinel attacks, so I'm curious to see what method will be used next.

Or we could forgo all of that and create a new Truce where both sides are acknowledged as equals. Hey, that hasn't been tried before, has it? Couldn't say for sure...
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#36300298015 08/06/2007 13:13 Re:Awakenings are still happening!
((Wow, Satta, I think I expressed many more ideas than just your character being a delusional fool...c'mon man, did you even read my statement?  I know it was long, but dude, I directly attacked your argument over trust issues.  Meh, as much as I like debating (majoring in Forensics), I think I'm bowing out of this one.  Kinda takes the wind out of a guy when his arguments aren't considered.  Enjoy.))
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