Why did they call off the truce?

7 posts · 2007-07-13 13:44:00 to 2007-07-19 00:23:00

#36300281995 07/13/2007 13:44 Why did they call off the truce?

A very important question in this time and day but one that hardly any know the real answer to. Oh sure we all hear how Zion moveing to a safer location and steping our of the sniper scope has caused it but was that really it? Lets ask the Agents.

Agent Gray: Operative, Cypherite spies have confirmed the existence of a new base built by Zion, intended to protect them from the threat of extermination by our Sentinels should they break the Truce.
This action itself directly undermines the function of the Truce. We have been directed to prevent Zion from extracting more humans from the pods. The use of force against Zion operatives has already begun.
Agent Pace will provide further details of the current situation. (source)

Ah so Zion moveing does have something to do with it. No wait, undermines...hmm that doesnt sound like "break" to me so lets look it up.

Undermine: To weaken by wearing away a base or foundation. To weaken, injure, or impair, often by defrees or imperceptibly; sap. (soruce)

Nope, defently not break, sorta funny sence I guess both sides have been doing this alot. The vials, Cypherites, General, and then moveing a city and all. So it seems we must look further. Maybe Pace will have something.

Agent Pace: Welcome, Mr. Kennedy. So, we have finally discovered where the supplies leaving Zion have been going for these many months. They have attempted to escape from the Truce by retreating to a more remote base--a place some of them apparently call "New Zion." They seem to hope that a combination of natural strata layers and EMP charges will allow them to disrupt the System with impunity. They will find that they are mistaken.
Zion underestimates our knowledge of their network interfaces within the simulation. Most of their secrets here are already known to us. As they have chosen to violate the law they agreed to follow, they will be punished, and their operations disrupted. Agent Gray will give you your first target. (source)

"They have attemtpted to escape from the truce" Ah ha! Motive! But wait...do we have anything to prove it? Hmm, "They seem to hope that a combination of natural strata layers and EMP charges will allow them to disrupt the System with impunity." Yes! More motive! But wait....proof of it? *CENSORED* must keep reading. Gray, anything else to add?

Agent Gray: Operative, it is not unexpected that you may have certain feelings or sentiments relating to Zion, and the humans therein. I want to make it clear that we do not engage in the unnecessary termination of life; neither do we take hostilities against Zion lightly. However, Zion's action in constructing a new fortified base reveals a clear intention to resume their past activities of attempting to damage the System, and in this circumstance, the lives of the vast majority of mankind reliant on the continued operation of the Matrix, not to mention the existence of the many programs whose existence depends upon the simulation, must take priority. (source)

Yes we finally have it! "However, Zion's action in constructing a new fortified base reveals a clear intention to resume their past activities of attempting to damage the System, and in this circumstance, the lives of the vast majority of mankind reliant on the continued operation of the Matrix, not to mention the existence of the many programs whose existence depends upon the simulation, must take priority." Wait....huh? Again a motive with no proof?  

Answer: The Machine's have ended the truce with Zion because they THINK Zion will attempt to harm the system now that they are no longer in danger of a sentinel attack despite nothing to suport this claim.

President Sanders, there are no WMDs in New Zion.


#36300284979 07/17/2007 10:45 Re:Why did they call off the truce?

Looking at the cinematic, it seems that the cypherite crew was actually looking for New Zion. Namely, they already know it was there, so they just need to confirm it. So, I think it's safe to assume Machines have know of that project for long, and probably know what is going on on there.

 ((How you RP "cinematic"? Something like "visual documents"?))

folding@home
GlueVane
#36300285465 07/17/2007 20:32 Why did they call off the truce?
GamiSB wrote:

A very important question in this time and day but one that hardly any know the real answer to. Oh sure we all hear how Zion moveing to a safer location and steping our of the sniper scope has caused it but was that really it? Lets ask the Agents.

Agent Gray: Operative, Cypherite spies have confirmed the existence of a new base built by Zion, intended to protect them from the threat of extermination by our Sentinels should they break the Truce.
This action itself directly undermines the function of the Truce. We have been directed to prevent Zion from extracting more humans from the pods. The use of force against Zion operatives has already begun.
Agent Pace will provide further details of the current situation. (source)

Ah so Zion moveing does have something to do with it. No wait, undermines...hmm that doesnt sound like "break" to me so lets look it up.

Undermine: To weaken by wearing away a base or foundation. To weaken, injure, or impair, often by defrees or imperceptibly; sap. (soruce)

Nope, defently not break, sorta funny sence I guess both sides have been doing this alot. The vials, Cypherites, General, and then moveing a city and all. So it seems we must look further. Maybe Pace will have something.

Agent Pace: Welcome, Mr. Kennedy. So, we have finally discovered where the supplies leaving Zion have been going for these many months. They have attempted to escape from the Truce by retreating to a more remote base--a place some of them apparently call "New Zion." They seem to hope that a combination of natural strata layers and EMP charges will allow them to disrupt the System with impunity. They will find that they are mistaken.
Zion underestimates our knowledge of their network interfaces within the simulation. Most of their secrets here are already known to us. As they have chosen to violate the law they agreed to follow, they will be punished, and their operations disrupted. Agent Gray will give you your first target. (source)

"They have attemtpted to escape from the truce" Ah ha! Motive! But wait...do we have anything to prove it? Hmm, "They seem to hope that a combination of natural strata layers and EMP charges will allow them to disrupt the System with impunity." Yes! More motive! But wait....proof of it? *CENSORED* must keep reading. Gray, anything else to add?

Agent Gray: Operative, it is not unexpected that you may have certain feelings or sentiments relating to Zion, and the humans therein. I want to make it clear that we do not engage in the unnecessary termination of life; neither do we take hostilities against Zion lightly. However, Zion's action in constructing a new fortified base reveals a clear intention to resume their past activities of attempting to damage the System, and in this circumstance, the lives of the vast majority of mankind reliant on the continued operation of the Matrix, not to mention the existence of the many programs whose existence depends upon the simulation, must take priority. (source)

Yes we finally have it! "However, Zion's action in constructing a new fortified base reveals a clear intention to resume their past activities of attempting to damage the System, and in this circumstance, the lives of the vast majority of mankind reliant on the continued operation of the Matrix, not to mention the existence of the many programs whose existence depends upon the simulation, must take priority." Wait....huh? Again a motive with no proof?  

Answer: The Machine's have ended the truce with Zion because they THINK Zion will attempt to harm the system now that they are no longer in danger of a sentinel attack despite nothing to suport this claim.

President Sanders, there are no WMDs in New Zion.

I hate to break it to you but agent gray debunked the "motive" thing in the event post tonight. Or he started tripping over his own words. /shrug
#36300285475 07/17/2007 20:58 Re:Why did they call off the truce?
MetaLogic wrote:
GamiSB wrote:

Gray states that he does not care about the motive of Zion's construction of a new city true and that does fit. However that was not the purpose of this thread. The purpose was to uncover the reason as to why they called off the truce. It has nothing to do why Zion built a new city.



Agent Gray also confirmed that building a new fortified city was in breach of the Truce, so I guess that takes care of the "why". 


Gami: Well, I know that. However, your post assumed that their motive for ending the truce was because of their perceived motive for Zion to build a new city. That is, the machines assumed that the motive for the new city to be built was because Zion were planning to break the truce and needed a new city to fall back on when **** hit the fan. If this wasn't what you meant you got me real confused :S

Metalogic: What the hell? That's the dumbest thing I've heard, more akin to a surrender than a truce, which is (supposed to be) an equal agreement.
#36300285503 07/17/2007 21:43 Re:Why did they call off the truce?
GamiSB wrote:
Skill wrote:
MetaLogic wrote:
GamiSB wrote:

Gray states that he does not care about the motive of Zion's construction of a new city true and that does fit. However that was not the purpose of this thread. The purpose was to uncover the reason as to why they called off the truce. It has nothing to do why Zion built a new city.



Agent Gray also confirmed that building a new fortified city was in breach of the Truce, so I guess that takes care of the "why". 
Gami: Well, I know that. However, your post assumed that their motive for ending the truce was because of their perceived motive for Zion to build a new city. That is, the machines assumed that the motive for the new city to be built was because Zion were planning to break the truce and needed a new city to fall back on when **** hit the fan. If this wasn't what you meant you got me real confused :S

Metalogic: What the hell? That's the dumbest thing I've heard, more akin to a surrender than a truce, which is (supposed to be) an equal agreement.

Agent Gray did not call off the truce The Architect did. Because Gray doesnt assume motives doesnt mean Mr. Sanders doesn't as well. The Machines have made it very clear that reasoning for calling off the truce was because of the city but why this is such a problem isn't said anywhere. So going by what the Agents are saying it is either...

A) there reasoning is bull *CENSORED* because no where in the truce did it say that they could not move
or
B) Mr. Sanders thinks that New Zion is a potiental threat without a show of facts to back him up.

Gray said that point was irrelevant.. And he at least seems to have a good understanding of why the truce was broke.

Agent Gray
: The move, however, violates the security of our original agreement.

    So, I'm guessing that while the truce does not directly prohibit a move it would (as we were saying before) undermine the original function of the truce.

    The truce itself wasn't about peace, cooperation, or trust. It was about using Zion's citizens as hostages to ensure that we wouldn't "pose a threat to the system", much less stand up for ourselves; A ticking time bomb. The recruiting of red-pills, machine employment of red-pills and the legalized re-insertions((so much for that)) were just provisions.

    This is my interpretation of the truce(since we don't have a hard copy) and if it holds true it should be clear to us why they called off the truce.
    ((If anyone else wants to post something a little less... Critical of machines, feel free, just make sure it makes sense SMILEY))
#36300286348 07/18/2007 17:26 Re:Why did they call off the truce?
MetaLogic wrote:
You want to know why the machines have a problem with New Zion?  I'll tell you why.  Because mankind has killed machines who's only crime was killing human in self defense, which lead to a genocide of the machine race, which led the machines to be exiled to the cradle of civilization to create 01.  When 01 was kicking humanity's butt in the economy war, humanity reacted with blockade of 01 ports so they couldn't ship their products out.  The machines went to the UN to offer a plan for peace and economic corporations between machines and man, and what was the result, denial into the UN.  Soon after, mankind begun to nuke 01, and thus the machine/man war broke out.  In a desperate attempt to beat back the machines, mankind blocked out the sun in "Operation Dark Storm", the sun being machines only source of power at the time.  The machines won the war, and they had the choice to wipe out all of humanity, and clear up the skies.  However, they realized that by using the human body as a energy source, while putting humans inside The Matrix, it would create a new relationship between man and machine. 

It was good for awhile, until Neo approached the machines and requested peace in exchange for defeating Smith.  Neo defeated Smith and the machines abide by the terms of the Truce which states that Zion has the privilege of awakening the 1% who reject the simulation as long as Zion did not act like it was gearing up for war.

After being killed because you were defending yourself, after surviving Genocide, nuclear bombings, having your only mean of power source taken away from you, and having every attempt at a peaceful co-existence shot down, yea, I'd be pretty weary of the Zion population and wondering why they're building a fortified city that has enough EMP to take out alot of Sentials. 

That's one theory. But can it be proven/backed by evidence?
#36300286572 07/19/2007 00:23 Re:Why did they call off the truce?
Blackleaf wrote:
Source: http://forums.station.sony.com/mxo/..._id=36300014857
A.K.A. the horses mouth.

War on the Machines...

Kid: We know what we have to do: shut the machines down

EPN 1: Shut the whole system down?
EPN 2 You'd have to use fullscale EMP bombardments then
Kid: That's one idea.

It gets worse....

EPN 2: If we can't hold them off we can't kill them ShadowGriever is EPN? >.>
Kid: Hold them off?
Kid: That's Zions problem.
Kid: We aren't so easy to catch.
Kid: We're not in the same situation as Zion. They're stationary. They've got a large non-combatant population to worry about.

As for the blue-pills...

Kid: Im not going to advocate any plan that results in millions of deaths--not if theres any other way.
Kid: We have to be careful if we're thinking of hitting the pods somehow.

You may argue that Zion is not EPN, as I have said before Zion is responsible for policing it's people.  I have seen no effort to stop the EPN menace, in fact I have seen a lot of support offered them from Zion, even after this discussion was made public.  You know all of this Gami, you support EPN, you were in the channel where this was made public.  Don't ask for proof you already have.

I will accept that the Machines are responsible for the actions of the Cypherites. That they are a response to EPN is no excuse for their truce threatening actions. Mistakes were made on both sides and though reasons may be given fault remains.  However the Cypherites are not willing to wipe out all life on this planet in some crazed quest for freedom.

If Zion did anything to threaten the truce before the new Zion thing we would have been at war a year ago. The fact that they jumped all over this proves it.