18 posts · 2007-06-27 20:36:20 to 2007-07-04 19:27:20
Okay, so we all know that after the B166ER trial the machines all went to the middle east and craeted 01. But this raises a question. How in the hell did they manage to do this? I mean take a look at that area and all the stuff going on over there with Isreal. None of them want to give up there land for another nation of humans so what would make them do it for the Machines?
Thoughts?
"In the beginning, Man created Machine, and for a time, it was good ..."
Sometime in the mid-to-late 21st century, the machine B1-66ER was tried, convicted, and destroyed by the United States government for the murder of his human master and a robot dealer.
The actions of one machine spawned fear and racism towards all other machines. The machines of the world were persecuted and massacred by human governments, and all survivors were subsequently expelled from their home nations. The surviving machines traveled to the Mesopotamian desert (root of human civilization), an uninhabited region of the Fertile Crescent somewhere in Saudi Arabia, on the Arabian Peninsula, and raised Zero One from the ground up.
Well according to wikipedia:Even still, given that article, I can't see how humans (given their hatred of Machine-kind at the time) would allow them not only to live on land part of an existing state, but to live on land that had such 'human' significance (being part of the Fertile Crescent). Or maybe that last part is a way of reading into how man's ignorance and rage reduced them to nothing but spiteful xenophobes to the Machines...or something all philosophical and such.
"In the beginning, Man created Machine, and for a time, it was good ..."
Sometime in the mid-to-late 21st century, the machine B1-66ER was tried, convicted, and destroyed by the United States government for the murder of his human master and a robot dealer.
The actions of one machine spawned fear and racism towards all other machines. The machines of the world were persecuted and massacred by human governments, and all survivors were subsequently expelled from their home nations. The surviving machines traveled to the Mesopotamian desert (root of human civilization), an uninhabited region of the Fertile Crescent somewhere in Saudi Arabia, on the Arabian Peninsula, and raised Zero One from the ground up.
Full Article here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_One
But even i am still lost with this information since its hard to figure out =\
Xintax wrote:An Unhabitated Region in the middle east, prolly the desert me thinks,Well according to wikipedia:Even still, given that article, I can't see how humans (given their hatred of Machine-kind at the time) would allow them not only to live on land part of an existing state, but to live on land that had such 'human' significance (being part of the Fertile Crescent). Or maybe that last part is a way of reading into how man's ignorance and rage reduced them to nothing but spiteful xenophobes to the Machines...or something all philosophical and such.
"In the beginning, Man created Machine, and for a time, it was good ..."
Sometime in the mid-to-late 21st century, the machine B1-66ER was tried, convicted, and destroyed by the United States government for the murder of his human master and a robot dealer.
The actions of one machine spawned fear and racism towards all other machines. The machines of the world were persecuted and massacred by human governments, and all survivors were subsequently expelled from their home nations. The surviving machines traveled to the Mesopotamian desert (root of human civilization), an uninhabited region of the Fertile Crescent somewhere in Saudi Arabia, on the Arabian Peninsula, and raised Zero One from the ground up.
Full Article here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_One
But even i am still lost with this information since its hard to figure out =\
Or maybe it was just a plot device with a quasi-meaningful detail.
An Unhabitated Region in the middle east, prolly the desert me thinks but yet we do NOT know if there were still people actually living in the middle east =\Probably so, and granted there may be no people living in the area Zero-One was planted, but given the ties to the land (both historical and religious), I wouldn't see Saudi Arabians appreciating forking over a chunk (even small) to these 'abominations.' And given that the article said somewhere in Saudi Arabia...can't really tell if they mean "present-day" or "at that time in history", so it's sorta a shot in the dark; an assumption. But even if no one lived there, I'm sure some corporate entity could find some use for that chunk of land, even if there was no formal government of any kind left.
You know, another thing that popped in my head running what I remembered from the 2nd Ren. film was the corporate influence. Considering that it was proven that a Machine could build many things much faster and more efficiently than a human while costing less, I see international business powers maybe having a hand in it. Granted, they'd want to do it very deep under the table and keep it all 'hush-hush' (no one would want to buy their products if they knew they were "evil Machine-supporters"YES! thats what im talking about lol, but the motivation is certainly there, and maybe enough so to pull the necessary political strings and such to accomplish it. Still, gotta admire the irony in that if it indeed was the case as they became so efficient that man got all jealous and put an embargo on them.
Xintax wrote:But see that doesnt explain why the nations would hand over the land. Look at Isreal and Pakastan. There is nothing to be gained from that small strip of land and yet there in a full out war with each other. So it just doesn't fit that these people would just hand over that area of land esspecialy with the significane it holds and people liveing there or not.An Unhabitated Region in the middle east, prolly the desert me thinks but yet we do NOT know if there were still people actually living in the middle east =\Probably so, and granted there may be no people living in the area Zero-One was planted, but given the ties to the land (both historical and religious), I wouldn't see Saudi Arabians appreciating forking over a chunk (even small) to these 'abominations.' And given that the article said somewhere in Saudi Arabia...can't really tell if they mean "present-day" or "at that time in history", so it's sorta a shot in the dark; an assumption. But even if no one lived there, I'm sure some corporate entity could find some use for that chunk of land, even if there was no formal government of any kind left.
LoTekGhost wrote:Thing is we don't really know if there are still ppl living around that area, and if so, then i have to agree what you wrote here:Xintax wrote:But see that doesnt explain why the nations would hand over the land. Look at Isreal and Pakastan. There is nothing to be gained from that small strip of land and yet there in a full out war with each other. So it just doesn't fit that these people would just hand over that area of land esspecialy with the significane it holds and people liveing there or not.An Unhabitated Region in the middle east, prolly the desert me thinks but yet we do NOT know if there were still people actually living in the middle east =\Probably so, and granted there may be no people living in the area Zero-One was planted, but given the ties to the land (both historical and religious), I wouldn't see Saudi Arabians appreciating forking over a chunk (even small) to these 'abominations.' And given that the article said somewhere in Saudi Arabia...can't really tell if they mean "present-day" or "at that time in history", so it's sorta a shot in the dark; an assumption. But even if no one lived there, I'm sure some corporate entity could find some use for that chunk of land, even if there was no formal government of any kind left.
I don't know if this is related or not, but in Mahiro Maeda's commentary, he says that the Machines created Zero One "in a compromise", implying that there was some form of agreement. Though he doesn't go into detail, so this could mean an agreement between humans and the Machines, or just an agreement between the fleeing Machines.I could see it being a financial agreement, if that was the case. The only real thing that people at the time could recognize the Machine's for doing well is relatively cheap, efficient production. Given the economic incentive, I could see the country's government capitalizing on the opportunity by allowing refuge for the Machines in return for a heavy tax what they produce and export. This would also go into explaining just how they became an economic superpower in such a short period...bringing and building equipment to produce things through the borders while remaining in some sort of exile. Good find Othinn!
Here's an explanation from the General's Blog
The General says the 01/Human war was driven by economics.
The great efficiencies of 01 and its industrial satellites in the former Iraq -- which Machines purchased dirt cheap, since the chaos of the early 21st century created a failed state in the region, not to mention vast toxic reaches of "depleted" uranium contamination -- gradually sapped the blood out of the industrial base of the rest of the world.
How could they compete with cheap mechanical workers who with tireless accuracy and a minimum of therbligs persevere without complaint for months at a time?
Not that they ever complained; but maintenence was, of course, required. Otherwise they worked 24/7.
A lot can happen between now and the mid to late 21st century. It is of course fiction which often tries to explain itself more than the truth does.
But here we try to predict the near future to explain a fictional distant future which relies on its past future of our present. In the sense of it being a fictional story this is a sound foundation because we can't prove it either way since the near future which the distant future relies on is still unknown to us. So anything is possible.
My guess is by the time we get there, the chaos of the Middle East has transformed it in ways we couldn't anticipate from this point in time. It's not just the problems there, it's the problems with the way the world tries to deal with the problems there that make the possible futures of the Middle East so widely variable.
I think the writers knowing this chose it because it's the least defineable future from our present perspective. We'd have a much harder time imagining this to be feasible if it were in Europe or Canada where we (the western world) percieve a much greater economic and political stability to resist the development of a sovereign nation within it's boundaries. There is also a relation between the human fear of the Machines and much of what we don't understand about middle eastern culture. This region's ties to the origin of humanity have long been the catalist for conflict. So on the whole I'd say the location was chosen more for the feel of it than for an ultimate knowable logic about it.