The Master knife thrower tree

As an MxO veteran I have been here since beta. The game has had its ups and downs but has mostly been fixed. I reside on Vector and  have been pvping back since the days of enumerator. Now I would say the combat system is pretty balanced if you know what you are doing. MA are the power interlock and you can mix/match for accuracy with aikido, guns are about accuracy and can be increased in power with sniper, Viral is out of interlock accuracy, which the damage can be increased by debuffing, but that leads us to the one tree that is completly out of balance. The Master knife thrower tree. I will break it down in to a few specific categories which I have come to this conclusion.

 1. The ability and accuracy to root. If you can hold someone still obviously it is easier to kill them. An MKT has the ability to root in and out of interlock, the accuracy to do it and many abilities to do it. MKT also has an incredible long root. MA doesn't even have this ability, guns do, however it barely hits and cannot be done in IL. Viral abilities can match this however cannot be pulled off in IL.

 2. Accuracy of ability: Obviously if you can hit someone you can kill them faster. All abilities are pretty well balanced each of the trees can hit pretty likely. However in Interlock MKT's can hit abilities back to back to back. Not only this but some abilities feed of each i.e.  when someone is a certain state throwing a certain abilities which will make them powerless or stunned. No other tree can do this.

 3. Power of the ability: Obviously MA is the winner here. It is meant to be the power interlock . However arguably the most powerful move in the game is Punt. Not only can you do this without starting in interlock you can do this while in sneak. If you know what you are doing this will hit almost everytime, combined with the accuracy of knives, then getting the states you might not have a chance to pull a move off. Another move that isn't as strong but has similar effects is suplex. If you suplex someone then throw the right knife, 1 or 2 moves by the opposing player max will be pulled off. No other tree can do this as consistently and as powerfully.

 4. The ability to be concealed. You can't hit what you can't see. Understandly, included in MKT since a lot of abilites come from this. However, combining this with the things above makes it lethal. From sneak you can break someones bubble temporarily then its over.

 My point of all of this is that MKT is overpowered. A simple fix can change this. First, reduce the accuracy of an MKT in interlock and remove the state trigger that allows for powerless or stun. This would make it possible for a power tree to come back and actually make it a fair fight. This isn't meant to start flaming or crying or whatever. In PVP you aren't invincible and thats understandable however the playing field needs to be evened.

9mmfu, Rare I would love to see your rebuttle on the these arguments.

EC

ECW42O wrote:

As an MxO veteran I have been here since beta. The game has had its ups and downs but has mostly been fixed. I reside on Vector and  have been pvping back since the days of enumerator. Now I would say the combat system is pretty balanced if you know what you are doing. MA are the power interlock and you can mix/match for accuracy with aikido, guns are about accuracy and can be increased in power with sniper, Viral is out of interlock accuracy, which the damage can be increased by debuffing, but that leads us to the one tree that is completly out of balance. The Master knife thrower tree. I will break it down in to a few specific categories which I have come to this conclusion.

Well, MAs can easily kill me as a hacker, I think MAs are completely out of balance and need a nerf.

MA's were designed to be just an interlock way of fighting. Hackers out of interlock.

 1. The ability and accuracy to root. If you can hold someone still obviously it is easier to kill them. An MKT has the ability to root in and out of interlock, the accuracy to do it and many abilities to do it. MKT also has an incredible long root. MA doesn't even have this ability, guns do, however it barely hits and cannot be done in IL. Viral abilities can match this however cannot be pulled off in IL.

Many abilties? Two, one of them bugged and both break with ANY damage. I don't consider that many. Also, hackers have longer roots.

Actually there are more than two. Neuro-dart, Crippling throw, Deadly Throw, Paralyzing throw and Sever Artery. All which hinder your movement speed

2. Accuracy of ability: Obviously if you can hit someone you can kill them faster. All abilities are pretty well balanced each of the trees can hit pretty likely. However in Interlock MKT's can hit abilities back to back to back. Not only this but some abilities feed of each i.e.  when someone is a certain state throwing a certain abilities which will make them powerless or stunned. No other tree can do this.

No, but the problem is that MKTs, unlike guns or MAs, don't have the melee/ballsitic accuracy to use normal rolls (i.e speed, power, grab) to get the opponent into states. The chances of knives causing a state are 20%, which are lower than the chances in regular moves. Also, if I get you staggered, I can get your powerless. Big deal. If you get me staggered, you can Ki Sweep + Ki Punch me into the concrete. Want to trade?

True, however most if not all MKT's use Suplex. Thus, creating the states automatically to stun/cause powerless as they please. Once this happens it doesn't matter that they have lower melee/ballistic accuracy as you know a good MKT will just throw specials.

 3. Power of the ability: Obviously MA is the winner here. It is meant to be the power interlock . However arguably the most powerful move in the game is Punt. Not only can you do this without starting in interlock you can do this while in sneak. If you know what you are doing this will hit almost everytime, combined with the accuracy of knives, then getting the states you might not have a chance to pull a move off. Another move that isn't as strong but has similar effects is suplex. If you suplex someone then throw the right knife, 1 or 2 moves by the opposing player max will be pulled off. No other tree can do this as consistently and as powerfully.

Welcome to two weeks ago when sneak attacks' hit rate was nerfed into oblivion.

 4. The ability to be concealed. You can't hit what you can't see. Understandly, included in MKT since a lot of abilites come from this. However, combining this with the things above makes it lethal. From sneak you can break someones bubble temporarily then its over.

You can't break shields without revealing yourself, unless you use Disable, and honestly, you have to either suck or go AFK to get nailed with that.

Most if not all use disable is what I'm talking about and no you don't have to suck or go AFK to see this. No you don't have to suck or go afk to get nailed. Say you are a hacker and throwing your hacks, you are in the middle of them doesn't take long to break that bubble.

 My point of all of this is that MKT is overpowered. A simple fix can change this. First, reduce the accuracy of an MKT in interlock and remove the state trigger that allows for powerless or stun. This would make it possible for a power tree to come back and actually make it a fair fight. This isn't meant to start flaming or crying or whatever. In PVP you aren't invincible and thats understandable however the playing field needs to be evened.

MAs are overpowered, I think Aikido has too much defense. I could understand if once in Aikido style you could only use Aikido abilties and therefore not do much damage but you can use Kung Fu UGM with karate and Kung fu moves and still do a crapload of damage while keeping all the nice defense. Also the resistance debuff in Sky High kick is too much, specially since it seems to hit quite often. No to mention the ability to chain two state moves such as Dim Mak and Dummy Drill or Ki Sweep and Ki Punch.

MA's can not do anything unless they are in Interlock. If you are a hacker you have no business being in IL with an MA. My point is that MKT's can fight in and out of interlock and have more strengths than any other tree.

9mmfu, Rare I would love to see your rebuttle on the these arguments.

Doubt he'd waste his time.

As a paying customer and one of very many people concerned. I disagree.

EC

Just a little question...

but have you ever used the tree itself?
coz most ppl judge to fast while they never ever used the tree themselves.

Yes I have used it and found it to be quite overpowered for the reasons listed above.

EC

When's the last time you PvPed ECW? I'm not being a *CENSORED*, just saying I haven't seen you online for ages.

Is what you said here based on before the latest two weeks or not? MKTs were just nerfed pretty bad. And as for IL, I'm not quite sure what you're complaining about. MAs can absolutely tear apart MKTs, more now than ever.

Otherwise, I have pages and pages of responses to this sort of claim that I can go paste if we really must get into this sort of abstract discussion.

Learn how to use MKT and then post about how in-balanced it is, then also tell me how many times you have to re-log cause your hotbar gets bugged and none of your abilitys work, i feel MKT breaks way too much and instead of a lets cry about mkt breaking lets make a post about how MKT is totaly *CENSORED*