46 posts · 2007-04-03 06:56:48 to 2007-04-14 11:49:18
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In order to fix this... we would need to get rid of EVERY SINGLE EMOTE! And I am sorry but I am not willing to give those up just for the sake of making escape in PvP a little easier. No. Deal with it, and fight him off, don't run away like a little girl.
Laters
meh what is done is done, the game is ment to bring new content and features not take things outSeeing where people land from a Hyper jump is not content lol. also id note that you can only use Emotes when your not in a combat state.
Ah the number of times I've seen a barrage of; '*Insert name here* points you to something in front of them' upon attempting to escape.
I'm generally on the fence on the matter. I do think it's a little sad (and admittedly annoying for the receiver) to salute/point/ok someone through pure cq desperation, but at the same time it's their prerogative. It's not how those emotes are supposed to be used, but if they're that determined to catch me then I guess whatever works.
If you cant escape and evade because someone is completly standing still and doing a /point to point them in your general direction, you have some serious issues in the skill department when it comes to pvp. Escaping (with out hypejump even) is easy as ****, and always has been, even when you could /face and /follow a person.
If you can't get away from someone who's busy waving at you instead of chasing you down. You deserve to die.QFT.
It's easy to paint a ridiculous light on the issue of emotes allowing autotracking, but guess what: if it was worthless, people wouldn't be doing it.
Duh.
The issue isn't serious in regular combat, just as /face wasn't either. No one really cares if you use something to get an idea of where your target is; after all, you have them selected, so it stands to reason that you know where they are.
The issue arises in HyperJump pursuit, and it's the same issue that arose from /face. It allows for an automated method of tracking someone, a big no-no in MxO. That's why /addwaypoint was removed on hostiles.
HJer lands, then HJ's again.
Pursuer lands, /point's (or any other facing emote) to find out the exact direction of HJer, and then HJ's.
This is automated, and as we all know:
Automated tracking == NO.
QED.
Either I suck at automated tracking, or the few people I've chased using /russdance suck horribly, which is probably why I caught them.It's easy to paint a ridiculous light on the issue of emotes allowing autotracking, but guess what: if it was worthless, people wouldn't be doing it.
Duh.
The issue isn't serious in regular combat, just as /face wasn't either. No one really cares if you use something to get an idea of where your target is; after all, you have them selected, so it stands to reason that you know where they are.
The issue arises in HyperJump pursuit, and it's the same issue that arose from /face. It allows for an automated method of tracking someone, a big no-no in MxO. That's why /addwaypoint was removed on hostiles.
HJer lands, then HJ's again.
Pursuer lands, /point's (or any other facing emote) to find out the exact direction of HJer, and then HJ's.This is automated, and as we all know:
Automated tracking == NO.
QED.
If you can't get away from someone who's busy waving at you instead of chasing you down. You deserve to die.
QFT
Regardless of whether this is an exploit, game mechanism or black magic the value of distracting dev time to deal with it is so negligible as to be criminal.
Renzouken wrote:so because the problem is so small you think it would be better to ignore it yes there are other problems that need attention but Rarebit said himself he fixes small bugs when he has nothing to do which I hope this falls into that category.If you can't get away from someone who's busy waving at you instead of chasing you down. You deserve to die.
QFTRegardless of whether this is an exploit, game mechanism or black magic the value of distracting dev time to deal with it is so negligible as to be criminal.
You would think that it would be more of a problem that unflagged, I can walk right into your face, buff myself to the hilt, and use Logic Cannon 2.0 and you can do is wait till it hits I flag then you can attack..... but some people see this problem, which really isn't a problem, as more drastic.....
Obviously this isn't a problem on Vector, but still, if your in a fight with someone who is busy waving at you, all you have to do is shoot him/her, they enter combat state, now HJ away, problem solved.
Roukan: The only ground with /face on the ground was when it was combined with autorun. Players could then target anyone they wanted and "wiggle" around them. Especially annoying for hyperjumps; there were times when I'd jump only to have 5 or 6 Zionists wiggling exactly where I was about to land.
Pathetic.
The emotes like /point can't be combined with autorun. Thus, I don't really care about that aspect. I do care about the advantage they give during mutual HyperJump pursuit.
There's buildings and elevators for a reason.
It's very easy to get trapped in buildings.
Tytanya_MxO: I highly disagree. Yes, in some situations, it's use grants the user absolutely no advantage. But, as I've already described, there certainly are situations where it allows for auto-tracking, same as /face.
It's still easy to get away from people chasing you in this way by not jumping the full Ctrl+Space distance and then going perpendicular to that path of travel once you land, which will screw up the emote's direction once that person lands; you'll be far away and in a non constant direction.
There's a very noticable "pause" in midair when you do this, so the person behind you simply lets go of his Ctrl+Space too. And then, you're back at square one.
Regardless, even if there is a way around it, it still allows autotracking and needs to be fixed.
The solution is simple: don't allow emotes to auto-face the target at all. This won't hurt RP, since it's unnatural to whip around to face your target when doing an emote anyways, and will fix the problem of auto-tracking HJers. Case closed.
It's still easy to get away from people chasing you in this way by not jumping the full Ctrl+Space distance and then going perpendicular to that path of travel once you land, which will screw up the emote's direction once that person lands; you'll be far away and in a non constant direction.I'm going to give you another look at my Avatar
In no way are emotes an "automated" system of tracking; they give information about a target just like /who and /range. Range can even be updated by looping macros, whereas with emotes the user must be out of the combat state and not in motion to use them.
Packhunter, the emotes are working exactly as they've always been intended to. You see something, you select it, and when you /point, your character points to that object. Please tell me, how exactly is that a bug? And aside from the hypothetical situations that have been brought up in this thread, how much of an "edge" do these emotes really give? You should come onto Vector and do some testing with these emotes then, it should be no problem for you to catch me because they're so obviously flawed, right?
Rarebit wrote: The difference is that you can't emote while in the combat state, emotes don't auto-face like /face did, and they have a bit of casting time to them. And no, we aren't planning on changing how they work.
People who get trapped in buildings shouldn't whine about getting owned because some zergling had the audacity to chase you that far. There's block hands, there's roots, there's antibiotics.. you have no reason to die to someone chasing you unless you have a luggable.There's buildings and elevators for a reason.
It's very easy to get trapped in buildings.
Hmmm I just noticed this post here. Relox, suriously if you have that big of a problem with it then don't pvp against me. Do you know how much effort it actually takes to use and emote on a person thats running from you? It's freaking hard! I was barley able to keep up with you but that's only because you stayed in the area, until you finally got fed up, called me a f*g and hl'd to the loading area.Im not botherd if you want to give chase thats fine by me i like the chase keeps me on my toes but using the emotes to track someone is just a cheap way of doing it (and on a side note youve macro's beckon to your hotbar so it cant be that hard to use it on a hostile player)
This note is to all :
If you want to hyperjump away thats fine but don't complain when someone decides to give chase. just because you suddenly THINK you deserve a break doesn't mean the person you were fighting has to stop. I've been chased down many times with /face and emotes. If I can get away again then great if I can't I fight like a man and either die or get lucky. If you want to get away so badly then keep jumping or teleport. Do not decide to jump away then sit next to the battle field to heal. You might as well say free hit to anyone flagged that happens to see you. Ofcourse then you'll probably try to accuse them of using an emote to find you. Come on people it's a game, if you can't figure out your own unique way to escape an unhealthy situation for your RSI then I suggest you mosy on over the WoW.
I think we should just screenshot all the people doing it and post it here, hopefully they'll stop then.
Sneaker wrote:People who get trapped in buildings shouldn't whine about getting owned because some zergling had the audacity to chase you that far. There's block hands, there's roots, there's antibiotics.. you have no reason to die to someone chasing you unless you have a luggable.There's buildings and elevators for a reason.
It's very easy to get trapped in buildings.
I'm not talking about one zergling chasing you, Rouk. I'm talking about 5 or 6.
If they're smart enough, they'll just cover the exits and search the building.
And, again, if facing emotes served no use, people wouldn't be using them. Now, I can jump indefinately to escape, but that means less fun, considering I can't get back into the fight because some folks feel the need to use auto-tracking abilities. They're able to follow me long after their own inability would have failed them.
/addwaypoint didn't mean an impossible escape either, but it certainly was removed because it gives an advantage. Get it through your heads, people.
Mabey it isn't a case of chageing the emotes, mabey.... Hostiles will be deselected after they get 100 meters away from you....?
Bare in mine, I rarely PvP so I dont know if this will make an impact on anything, so dont flame me 
Roukan wrote:Having no IS as a sniper and being interlocked with an MA is an advantage too, just a different one. You learn to work around it, just like someone pointing at you, or throwing a waypoint.Sneaker wrote:People who get trapped in buildings shouldn't whine about getting owned because some zergling had the audacity to chase you that far. There's block hands, there's roots, there's antibiotics.. you have no reason to die to someone chasing you unless you have a luggable.There's buildings and elevators for a reason.
It's very easy to get trapped in buildings.
I'm not talking about one zergling chasing you, Rouk. I'm talking about 5 or 6.If they're smart enough, they'll just cover the exits and search the building.
And, again, if facing emotes served no use, people wouldn't be using them. Now, I can jump indefinately to escape, but that means less fun, considering I can't get back into the fight because some folks feel the need to use auto-tracking abilities. They're able to follow me long after their own inability would have failed them.
/addwaypoint didn't mean an impossible escape either, but it certainly was removed because it gives an advantage. Get it through your heads, people.
Sneaker wrote:Roukan wrote:Having no IS as a sniper and being interlocked with an MA is an advantage too, just a different one. You learn to work around it, just like someone pointing at you, or throwing a waypoint.Sneaker wrote:People who get trapped in buildings shouldn't whine about getting owned because some zergling had the audacity to chase you that far. There's block hands, there's roots, there's antibiotics.. you have no reason to die to someone chasing you unless you have a luggable.There's buildings and elevators for a reason.
It's very easy to get trapped in buildings.
I'm not talking about one zergling chasing you, Rouk. I'm talking about 5 or 6.If they're smart enough, they'll just cover the exits and search the building.
And, again, if facing emotes served no use, people wouldn't be using them. Now, I can jump indefinately to escape, but that means less fun, considering I can't get back into the fight because some folks feel the need to use auto-tracking abilities. They're able to follow me long after their own inability would have failed them.
/addwaypoint didn't mean an impossible escape either, but it certainly was removed because it gives an advantage. Get it through your heads, people.
Seems like a poor comparison to me. Care to walk me through how the two situations have anything to do with one another?
And, care to explain why /addwaypoint was removed, if folks could simply work their way around it?
The future is still fused................
They must come back to the program ............
All will be forgiven.....................
Heres the question is Emoting considered sploiting?
The dev team says the emotes are fine as is. Are the emotes fine as is because they trully feel that way? I can see how the other emotes are considered to inefficient to track compared to /face to be considered fine.
Or is it the answer they came up with in order not to go thru and redo the emotes? If they feel the emotes are fine due to basically being lazy or not having time to fix anytime soon- here is the easiest way to correct the problem. All you have to do is announce that emoting hostiles is considered a sploit. Thats all SOE would have to do. Then its up to other players to report /ccr anyone that emotes them while hostile. This would make the time-effort-money to redo emotes not needed.
Yes I do consider /beckon /point to be cheap, and wish it would be done away with. However my biggest problem is when people macro a looping emote to /beckon and every 5 seconds seing ______ beckons___________ in system chat. To me that is SPAM which is also a /ccr-able offense.
Perhaps it would be if you were on the dev team NT, but the devs have said that they intend to leave emotes as-is. That implies that they DON'T see the present application as exploiting. Now whose word should we listen to...Bayamo, lets be honest here. Why do you think that is? I know why I think it is. The manhours it would take to make sure that emotes couldnt be used as a half arsed /face. Thats why. Not because its not wrong, not because its not taking advantage of an unforseen game mechanic, but because they dont have the manhours to fix it. So why dont we leave the "who should we listen to" holier then thou attitude at home next time ok? Your right, nothing is going to be done, but that doesnt mean if you use emotes to replace the /face command that was made to not work on hostiles for the exact same reason that your not abusing the situation.
Say there was an exploit with MA. It gets fixed. Are the people continuing to use MA still exploiting? By your definition, anyone doing anything that has something in common with the issue in the past is automatically abusing game mechanics because in some way shape or form there's some link that associates it to the past issue somehow. The bottom line is that PvP is not fair. A team of 6 with teamwork should be able to track and corner one escaping player, currently hyperjump prevents this.It's /point is just the same as /face apart from it's being about 10x more obvious, there is a link between the 2, they do the exact same thing as /face but they have a system chat message and do an animation which isn't nessesary as you can hit ctrl + space and the animation disappears. Hyperjump isn't an easy escape route, if you ever get me chasing you, there won't be any system chat messages but I can keep up with someone pretty easily, just by keeping your eye on your target I can usually have an idea of where they're about to land depending on current speed and if they've removed their hand on the HJ key combo and the contrails look absolutely hideous to some but IMO, best animation EVER!
My definition of "holier than thou" attitude is when people get on soapboxes and pretend that they're members of the dev team and start DECLARING what is and isn't an exploit. That's not your call to make.I've kept up with a person hymperjumping away, interlocked them, and killed them. A team of six should have an even easier time doing that. And do you know why Im associating /addwaypoint /face and emoting? Because they are all being used to do the same thing. Thats what ties them together. Thats not hard to realize. /addwaypoint and /face were removed, by who? The dev team. They said it was not working as intended. now people are using emotes to do the -same- thing that has already been said is not intended. Again, manpower required to fix the issue might not be available, and thats fine. I'll continue to deal with people and their /coughpointwave macros, but in the end its easy to know that those that are using them are abusing the situation.
It would be simple enough to turn off emotes to hostiles, just as they did to /face and the others. But that would destroy lots of RP oppurtunity, and in the end accomplish nothing.
The common sentiment I see is that any use whatsoever of game mechanics to gather any information about a fleeing target is cheating. Addwaypoint is equivalent to face is equivalent to follow is equivalent to emotes; they're all vilified as "cheating" or "abusing mechanics."
Say there was an exploit with MA. It gets fixed. Are the people continuing to use MA still exploiting? By your definition, anyone doing anything that has something in common with the issue in the past is automatically abusing game mechanics because in some way shape or form there's some link that associates it to the past issue somehow. The bottom line is that PvP is not fair. A team of 6 with teamwork should be able to track and corner one escaping player, currently hyperjump prevents this.
