Spies don't face right

You'll find a lot of the time the animation of punt can bug and it appears as if they punt you from the front, but i think the range which a spy can activate a sneak attack from is slightly bugged. Again, technically someone could activate the move right as you turn to face them or you turn to the side and it looks as if they've sneak attacked from facing.

While standing with your back in a corner, you can still get punted.

That's a problem.

While standing with your back in a corner, you can still get punted.

That's a problem.

Evade has to be broken first of course, if people actually keep moving that isnt generally possible without breaking stealth. I really feel that an active player has many ways to dumbfound almost every stealth attack at present, pandering to those too lazy to move, stay alert or otherwise interact with the game is a very regressive step.... cowering in a corner is not a gameplay strategy I would like to see encouraged and I suspect its for this very reason that the cone of attack possibility on stealth is tighter than 90 degrees in front of the player.

In fact the design could well be more a concession to npc's who have an uncanny ability to turn toward their foe and disrupt stealth attacks, the system definitely allows a very simple means to deny stealth the only queistion really is the facility of a player to take advantage etc

Considering spies have an unbreakable stealth in the form of Disguises, it's a problem.

There is no way, at present, to avoid a stealth attack with normal world movements (ie: "dodging" an oncoming spy) once your shield is down. Why? Because the game is too slow. A spy can run, in a disguise, right towads you spamming the button for Punt/Bulldog/Whatever, run right through you,and interlock you once their character reaches the other "side", which constitutes as being "behind". A player simply cannot turn around fast enough.

The fact that they're able to spam the hotbar button is the problem itself. They can just run circles around you until eventually they get the option to use it. Which they will.

Granted, this situation may change after Update 50, since most of the time this happens after a Neurodart/Sever Artery/Deadly Throw, preventing any form of escape for an ungodly amount of time. We shall see.

Tytanya, is there something wrong with attempting to use the world objects to ones advantage? If I want to avoid a Punt, putting my back in a corner should certainly be a viable option; at present, every Spy knows that this does squat and will come running at you in a Disguise regardless.

It would certainly put me at a bad spot for a hungry Martial Artist, but I see absolutely no logical reason why I should be punted with my back in a corner.

You may not like that particular style of play, but frankly, that ain't a reason I'll accept.

I don't regard a facilty to reward inactivity as a positive change to the game but I concede we do need to encourage interactivtity with the environment where possible.

I wouldnt be adverse to a more restricted 'field of operation' for spies when the target is moving as to the situation when they are stationary and maybe likewise a more restricted operation window when a disguise is used over sneak..... which actually makes some sense. Player vigilance and energy should be rewarded I feel and different types of attack should warrant different methods of delivery, so a distinction between sneak, disguise and invisibility would be an enhancement to the combat system.

As I mention above however there are serious issues and consequences with NPC's who are already able to foil spy attacks to a disproportionate degree particularly at low levels by simply turning around, the chages suggested here would amplify such problems.

Inactivity is a bit of an exaggeration, don't you think?

Staying in a corner is a death sentence in normal combat situations (at least, for me). Using the corner, however, is perfectly legitimate option. It's the same as using a fence/building/overpass to block the majority of the zerg from seeing me. I'm not going to stay there, because they'll figure out where I am; but I'm sure going to use it to temporarily have an advantage.

I think you're looking at the NPC issue backwards: they shouldn't be repositioning to see stealthed players. Thus, the problem lies there, and should not be used as a reason to not fix stealth attack angles to prevent this.

Can a person Punt you whilst they are standing to the side of you? Nope.. but does it happen? Of course. Technically, a spy can only Punt you if your back is to them, and something is seriously wrong when you try your best to evade them, and they still punt you. If I am back up against a corner, like sneaker said: A spy can still punt. If my back is facing a gate, or door, or anything else: They still Punt.
I'm interested to see what the the field of vision is, as tytanya mentioned above. Maybe it would be good to try a bit of testing.

Oh, whilst we're on the subject: what does everyone think about the spies use of disguise? Shouldnt their disguise break when you break their evade? Currently a spy can move and JUMP with the disguise on, much like a tank.  Surely this defeats the whole purpose of being a spy to begin with? Many times I've escaped from the zerg, only for a spy to land behind me and greet me with a punt.  >_>

And for anyone who reply's with "you should keep your evade up". I do, that is one of the first things for PvP i think about. Most loadouts I use come with gaussion blurr and/or compel combat.

I'm of the opinion that Disguise was never designed with PvP in mind; only PvE. Running through mission areas undetected and whatnot.

Because, really: an unbreakable form of stealth? Guh?!

Kinda defeats the purpose of "stealth" when a Spy in a Disguise comes running at you in the middle of a battlefield.

I don't have a rock-solid position on this, as it's really only supported by other forms of stealth and my own opinion of fairness in MxO. I've always seen Punts, Suplex's, etc as Stealth moves that require setup, much like a Sniper Shot, and not simply some silly Disguise whenever you feel like it.

Spies don't have a problem with their attacking area's, I do have a problem with a spy running forward spamming the punt button and I think if you try to activate any ability, useable or unuseable it shoud deactivate the disguise immideately but 9/10 when you see them punt you from infront it's because the game didn't respond to the attack as quickly as it did for them.

I'm of the opinion that Disguise was never designed with PvP in mind; only PvE. Running through mission areas undetected and whatnot.

Because, really: an unbreakable form of stealth? Guh?!

Kinda defeats the purpose of "stealth" when a Spy in a Disguise comes running at you in the middle of a battlefield.

I don't have a rock-solid position on this, as it's really only supported by other forms of stealth and my own opinion of fairness in MxO. I've always seen Punts, Suplex's, etc as Stealth moves that require setup, much like a Sniper Shot, and not simply some silly Disguise whenever you feel like it.

Unbreakable form of stealth? Since when?
I can guarantee that disguise is not an "unbreakable form of stealth".
I shoot you. Disguise doesn't break, unlike all other forms of stealth.

How is this not clear, exactly?

It's not really stealthy when it's in plain view. Pretty much my point in its entirety.

Spies cannot just punt someone with disguise whenever they feel like it.
Yeah, you really can, especially since shields are 2-hit breaks these days.

You can take my point all out of context all you want, it doesn't make it invalid.

I'm talking about shooting someone stealthed via a Disguise when I say "Unbreakable". And I'm also saying that Stealth in plain view isn't really Stealth at all.

You can say Concealment Countermeasures will turn Disguise off. Okay, sure. You can also say that eventually the timer will run out. Yeah, cool. I'm aware of these things.

But, they're also not what I'm talking about.

(For the record:
-Concealment Countermeasures is a whopping 6m radius, almost nothing on a laggy MxO server with a Disguised Spy running at you with all his speed buffs.
-The lengthy effect timer on a levelled Disguise, combined with nearly no re-use timer, makes it nearly irrelevant.)

Course, this Disguise issue might end up disappearing all together with Update 50. Right now, with the plethora of MKT's lurking around, it's real noticable.

The difference with other stealth types and disguise is that there isn't a diguise anywhere that would fool any player, You know exactly who and where a disguised character is at all times - if a disguise broke on damage then the whole ability would be rendered redundant. I'm all for changing the way disguise works but it has to be resistant to damage unless a method of genuinely trying to trick a foe into thinking you are someone or something you are not can be achieved......personally I would like to see players being given an intutition style ability that allows them to penetrate disguises and remove the timer currently in use, a disguise remains in place until the opponent sees through it in effect as a mirror to reality - or maybe the proximity of a red begins the decay of the disguise so that they have to act quickly to get any attack in?

I am sure 90% of the spies facing which way for stealth attacks is the result of relative lag and as such may always 'appear' to be the case =/

Agreed, Arc. I'm quite curious to see a post-Update 50 world.

But, my opinion on Disguise was asked, and I just can't resist a good rant