A question: would you rather be dealt raw damage?
Hacker is the Uber class once again
102 posts · 2006-12-10 17:33:43 to 2006-12-28 00:00:23
No offence people, but if someone is exploiting it doesn't mean the tree should be nerfed. People can exploit a double punt (and its freakin easy to do), does that mean MKT should be nerfed on that basis alone. They're called exploits, so of course the tree will be overpowered when the person is exploiting.
As for abil juggling.
Code Infection 4.0 --> Logic Barrage --> Logic Blast --> Code Infection 3.0 --> Logic Barrage --> Logic Blast --> Code Infection 2.0 --> Logic Barrage --> Logic Blast --> Code Infection 1.0. I think that takes an awfully long time to do, more then enough time to eat an antibiotic.
And again, all it takes is popping an antibiotic and your given a huge advantage. Hackers can't pop pills to prevent you from spamming knives, we can't pop a pill to stop you from using FAR/Foot Sweep. Actually, as for out timers being boned, our debuffs might last a long time, but the recast timer is longer, only abil I can think of is slow. But attacks like code freeze 1.0 have an effect timer of 20+ seconds, but a reuse timer of 58 seconds, and its broken the moment you take dmg. We don't have the "set and forget" options of an MKT, we have to juggle the slowing abilities.
And don't forget you all have Hyper Deflect Perma activated so you always have a good chance to deflect our attacks.
As for abil juggling.
Code Infection 4.0 --> Logic Barrage --> Logic Blast --> Code Infection 3.0 --> Logic Barrage --> Logic Blast --> Code Infection 2.0 --> Logic Barrage --> Logic Blast --> Code Infection 1.0. I think that takes an awfully long time to do, more then enough time to eat an antibiotic.
And again, all it takes is popping an antibiotic and your given a huge advantage. Hackers can't pop pills to prevent you from spamming knives, we can't pop a pill to stop you from using FAR/Foot Sweep. Actually, as for out timers being boned, our debuffs might last a long time, but the recast timer is longer, only abil I can think of is slow. But attacks like code freeze 1.0 have an effect timer of 20+ seconds, but a reuse timer of 58 seconds, and its broken the moment you take dmg. We don't have the "set and forget" options of an MKT, we have to juggle the slowing abilities.
And don't forget you all have Hyper Deflect Perma activated so you always have a good chance to deflect our attacks.
Renzouken wrote:
Also, I have to agree with Arcanoloth's post above. There's plenty people can do to deal with hackers.
This seems to be a recurring problem with gameplay here. Most people use Load A and complain when someone uses Load B to beat it. So they all switch to Load B and complain when someone uses Load C to beat that. Perhaps instead of copying everyone's 'flavour of the month' load-out, maybe people should stick to one LO and learn it well enough to know how to deal with other classes properly. I don't mean to say here that no one knows how to use their trees, but there seem to be a great many who never bother to really familiarise themselves.
I feel like we need to hold PvP lessons or something.. 'Personal Defence 101'. Perhaps a well constructed Redpill Rescue post? I don't know.
Enough with the nerf-stick MxO players! If you got owned, maybe you just suck.
(full credit to the guy who's sig I stole that from)
So lets see what we have here...This comment is so true and so well said, I lol'ed.
MKT is overpowered.
Gunman is overpowered.
Hacker is overpowered.
MA is overpowered.
Sounds to me, like a balanced combat system.
Also, I have to agree with Arcanoloth's post above. There's plenty people can do to deal with hackers.
This seems to be a recurring problem with gameplay here. Most people use Load A and complain when someone uses Load B to beat it. So they all switch to Load B and complain when someone uses Load C to beat that. Perhaps instead of copying everyone's 'flavour of the month' load-out, maybe people should stick to one LO and learn it well enough to know how to deal with other classes properly. I don't mean to say here that no one knows how to use their trees, but there seem to be a great many who never bother to really familiarise themselves.
I feel like we need to hold PvP lessons or something.. 'Personal Defence 101'. Perhaps a well constructed Redpill Rescue post? I don't know.
Enough with the nerf-stick MxO players! If you got owned, maybe you just suck.
(full credit to the guy who's sig I stole that from)
Arcanoloth wrote:
OMG that's possible?
People can exploit a double punt (and its freakin easy to do)
OMG that's possible?
Mave wrote:
Arcanoloth wrote:It's possible to triple. Just a *CENSORED* to do.People can exploit a double punt (and its freakin easy to do)
OMG that's possible?
GypsyJuggler wrote:
Renzouken wrote:So lets see what we have here...This comment is so true and so well said, I lol'ed.
MKT is overpowered.
Gunman is overpowered.
Hacker is overpowered.
MA is overpowered.
Sounds to me, like a balanced combat system.
Also, I have to agree with Arcanoloth's post above. There's plenty people can do to deal with hackers.
This seems to be a recurring problem with gameplay here. Most people use Load A and complain when someone uses Load B to beat it. So they all switch to Load B and complain when someone uses Load C to beat that. Perhaps instead of copying everyone's 'flavour of the month' load-out, maybe people should stick to one LO and learn it well enough to know how to deal with other classes properly. I don't mean to say here that no one knows how to use their trees, but there seem to be a great many who never bother to really familiarise themselves.
I feel like we need to hold PvP lessons or something.. 'Personal Defence 101'. Perhaps a well constructed Redpill Rescue post? I don't know.
Enough with the nerf-stick MxO players! If you got owned, maybe you just suck.
(full credit to the guy who's sig I stole that from)
Problem is, the classes are "overpowered" in completely different ways. One has a damage bonus stack, one has improper family timers, one has stacked effects, and one has effect timers borked out the wazoo. Guess which one? 
It all sounds good when you generalize that these class problems simply even out. It's logic even a child could understand, right?
My god, if only life were that easy.
In reality, the problems in the classes range from causing a slight advantage in certain situations, to creating a full-time alpha class. The problems in the MKT class, for instance, far outweight any circumstances where LutS and Firearms Skill actually get away with stacking.
And yet, folks still feel justified to say "Hey, maybe you just suck, and want a class to beat everyone with", even when my arguments have nothing to do with personal circumstances, and everything to do with game mechanics.
Ladies and Gentlemen, for a rare treat, I will, here and now, use personal circumstances to show you what a change I'm proposing would do to the class I run (a patcher-sniper hybrid. My "Dr. House - Combat Rezzer" build). I've proposed that:
-Counter Throw and Tomo Nage now on same family timer
-Ki-Charged Punch and Ki-Charged Foot Sweep now on same family timer
-Dim Mak Strike and Wooden Dummy Drill now on same family timer
which essentially renders the MA "Win-Button" obsolete. What would this do to my build? Can I now pwn any Martial Artist who comes strutting my way? Well, no. What now happens is that instead of killing me within 5 seconds of interlock, it's now perhaps 8 seconds. So, why make the change at all? Because it's 1, maybe 2, more rolls in which I might win a Contested Withdraw and get the heck out of there and go lick my wounds. Considering how rare a CW success is these days, and how Grab tactics breaks any shield no matter the buff in 2 hits, I think us non-IL builds deserve that much.
This was a bit off topic, I'll admit, but something that needed to be said nevertheless.
####> END BROADCAST - HvCFT MARINER ####
Sneaker wrote:
No i think its on topic none the less.. if one tree needs the nerf then why not throw into play all the tress.. And Sneak I think that is a good ability combonation imo you have. The sniper-patcher.. only question i have is... Does it work as well as it does in missions instead of PvP. Or is that just a PvP setup?
GypsyJuggler wrote:Renzouken wrote:So lets see what we have here...This comment is so true and so well said, I lol'ed.
MKT is overpowered.
Gunman is overpowered.
Hacker is overpowered.
MA is overpowered.
Sounds to me, like a balanced combat system.
Also, I have to agree with Arcanoloth's post above. There's plenty people can do to deal with hackers.
This seems to be a recurring problem with gameplay here. Most people use Load A and complain when someone uses Load B to beat it. So they all switch to Load B and complain when someone uses Load C to beat that. Perhaps instead of copying everyone's 'flavour of the month' load-out, maybe people should stick to one LO and learn it well enough to know how to deal with other classes properly. I don't mean to say here that no one knows how to use their trees, but there seem to be a great many who never bother to really familiarise themselves.
I feel like we need to hold PvP lessons or something.. 'Personal Defence 101'. Perhaps a well constructed Redpill Rescue post? I don't know.
Enough with the nerf-stick MxO players! If you got owned, maybe you just suck.
(full credit to the guy who's sig I stole that from)
Problem is, the classes are "overpowered" in completely different ways. One has a damage bonus stack, one has improper family timers, one has stacked effects, and one has effect timers borked out the wazoo. Guess which one?
It all sounds good when you generalize that these class problems simply even out. It's logic even a child could understand, right?
My god, if only life were that easy.
In reality, the problems in the classes range from causing a slight advantage in certain situations, to creating a full-time alpha class. The problems in the MKT class, for instance, far outweight any circumstances where LutS and Firearms Skill actually get away with stacking.
And yet, folks still feel justified to say "Hey, maybe you just suck, and want a class to beat everyone with", even when my arguments have nothing to do with personal circumstances, and everything to do with game mechanics.
Ladies and Gentlemen, for a rare treat, I will, here and now, use personal circumstances to show you what a change I'm proposing would do to the class I run (a patcher-sniper hybrid. My "Dr. House - Combat Rezzer" build). I've proposed that:
-Counter Throw and Tomo Nage now on same family timer
-Ki-Charged Punch and Ki-Charged Foot Sweep now on same family timer
-Dim Mak Strike and Wooden Dummy Drill now on same family timer
which essentially renders the MA "Win-Button" obsolete. What would this do to my build? Can I now pwn any Martial Artist who comes strutting my way? Well, no. What now happens is that instead of killing me within 5 seconds of interlock, it's now perhaps 8 seconds. So, why make the change at all? Because it's 1, maybe 2, more rolls in which I might win a Contested Withdraw and get the heck out of there and go lick my wounds. Considering how rare a CW success is these days, and how Grab tactics breaks any shield no matter the buff in 2 hits, I think us non-IL builds deserve that much.
This was a bit off topic, I'll admit, but something that needed to be said nevertheless.
No i think its on topic none the less.. if one tree needs the nerf then why not throw into play all the tress.. And Sneak I think that is a good ability combonation imo you have. The sniper-patcher.. only question i have is... Does it work as well as it does in missions instead of PvP. Or is that just a PvP setup?
You don't have to nerf trees to fix things. You just either have to a.) Fix the bugs that make the tree so "ubar", or b.) Buff the anti-tree to the point where it matches the defense to the offensive capabilities.
The solution for MKT is simple, and the solution for hacker is simple.
MKT:
1.) Fix the timers on MKT knives.
2.) Remove effect durations that are longer than the timers.
3.) Make family stack priority lists, so you can't stack effects of the same family strength on the same target.
4.) Give passive thrown defense buffs to abilities in the hacker tree to increase their thrown defense.
Hacker:
1.) Increase the passive viral defense in the Martial Arts tree.
2.) Give martial arts an upgrade to their interlock accuracy vs. hackers. (In the form of an initiative buff, since hackers have to roll specials in interlock or use self defense.)
3.) If we're going to allow more buffs for the anti-class, its only fair to give back more debuffs in interlock, that way they have at least a small chance if they get lucky.
The solution for MKT is simple, and the solution for hacker is simple.
MKT:
1.) Fix the timers on MKT knives.
2.) Remove effect durations that are longer than the timers.
3.) Make family stack priority lists, so you can't stack effects of the same family strength on the same target.
4.) Give passive thrown defense buffs to abilities in the hacker tree to increase their thrown defense.
Hacker:
1.) Increase the passive viral defense in the Martial Arts tree.
2.) Give martial arts an upgrade to their interlock accuracy vs. hackers. (In the form of an initiative buff, since hackers have to roll specials in interlock or use self defense.)
3.) If we're going to allow more buffs for the anti-class, its only fair to give back more debuffs in interlock, that way they have at least a small chance if they get lucky.
And Sneak I think that is a good ability combonation imo you have. The sniper-patcher.. only question i have is... Does it work as well as it does in missions instead of PvP. Or is that just a PvP setup?
It's a PvP setup; near-max Ballistic Accuracy, group heals, combat rez, sniper capabilities, etc.
If you've ever hopped onto TC's Vent, you'll hear me yell several things:
1) "COMBAT REZ!!" when I've just rezzed a fellow surrounded by the reds that killed him.
2) "I love this build" when I've just managed to kill some red, followed by running back to the main PvP group to heal one of my members and prevent him from dying, as well as getting the kill of whoever he was fighting.
It's a tricky build to run, as many have tried and given up. Very, very low damage output. But there's way to offset that 
Oh, it does pretty good on missions, too.
Trikraft, this was my dream update:
http://www.thecollectiveguild.com/f...ad.php?p=126238
Which includes many of your proposed changes.
####> END BROADCAST - HvCFT MARINER ####
Sneaker wrote:
Oh and Sneaker...you forgot on update on that thread. "Find Weakness FINALLY works like it's sister abilities."
Yeah Sneaker's PvP build can be real interesting. The Combat Rez is annoying to the enemies, and excellent for the allies. One of Sneaker's heals can definately change things in PvP. (See: 01 PvP)And Sneak I think that is a good ability combonation imo you have. The sniper-patcher.. only question i have is... Does it work as well as it does in missions instead of PvP. Or is that just a PvP setup?
It's a PvP setup; near-max Ballistic Accuracy, group heals, combat rez, sniper capabilities, etc.If you've ever hopped onto TC's Vent, you'll hear me yell several things:
1) "COMBAT REZ!!" when I've just rezzed a fellow surrounded by the reds that killed him.
2) "I love this build" when I've just managed to kill some red, followed by running back to the main PvP group to heal one of my members and prevent him from dying, as well as getting the kill of whoever he was fighting.
It's a tricky build to run, as many have tried and given up. Very, very low damage output. But there's way to offset thatOh, it does pretty good on missions, too.
Trikraft, this was my dream update:
http://www.thecollectiveguild.com/f...ad.php?p=126238
Which includes many of your proposed changes.
Oh and Sneaker...you forgot on update on that thread. "Find Weakness FINALLY works like it's sister abilities."
Mave wrote:
Oh and Sneaker...you forgot on update on that thread. "Find Weakness FINALLY works like it's sister abilities."
I also excluded the Concealment bug.
Nothing personal, just didn't include everything for simplicity sake.
####> END BROADCAST - HvCFT MARINER ####
Trikraft wrote:
To be honest I think the entire thread is rather pointless as hacker is not uber anymore.
Hacker:Seriously, I lol'd. MA's can max out their viral defense quite easily, its called Aikido GM. Hell, I used Karate GM and had a VD of +186. If a MA can't get their viral defense above 180, then they are doing very very very VERY wrong. I'm sure MA's would much prefer defense bonuses vs something else. MA's already have the highest acc and hackers already take a giant IL accuracy penalty. The OP used MKT so he was naturally getting smashed by hackers, thats what hackers do.
1.) Increase the passive viral defense in the Martial Arts tree.
2.) Give martial arts an upgrade to their interlock accuracy vs. hackers. (In the form of an initiative buff, since hackers have to roll specials in interlock or use self defense.)
3.) If we're going to allow more buffs for the anti-class, its only fair to give back more debuffs in interlock, that way they have at least a small chance if they get lucky.
To be honest I think the entire thread is rather pointless as hacker is not uber anymore.
Arcanoloth wrote:
For once I agree with you. Well put.
Trikraft wrote:Hacker:Seriously, I lol'd. MA's can max out their viral defense quite easily, its called Aikido GM. Hell, I used Karate GM and had a VD of +186. If a MA can't get their viral defense above 180, then they are doing very very very VERY wrong. I'm sure MA's would much prefer defense bonuses vs something else. MA's already have the highest acc and hackers already take a giant IL accuracy penalty. The OP used MKT so he was naturally getting smashed by hackers, thats what hackers do.
1.) Increase the passive viral defense in the Martial Arts tree.
2.) Give martial arts an upgrade to their interlock accuracy vs. hackers. (In the form of an initiative buff, since hackers have to roll specials in interlock or use self defense.)
3.) If we're going to allow more buffs for the anti-class, its only fair to give back more debuffs in interlock, that way they have at least a small chance if they get lucky.
To be honest I think the entire thread is rather pointless as hacker is not uber anymore.
For once I agree with you. Well put.
Renzouken wrote:
Does this mean you'll be my friend?
Arcanoloth wrote:Trikraft wrote:Hacker:Seriously, I lol'd. MA's can max out their viral defense quite easily, its called Aikido GM. Hell, I used Karate GM and had a VD of +186. If a MA can't get their viral defense above 180, then they are doing very very very VERY wrong. I'm sure MA's would much prefer defense bonuses vs something else. MA's already have the highest acc and hackers already take a giant IL accuracy penalty. The OP used MKT so he was naturally getting smashed by hackers, thats what hackers do.
1.) Increase the passive viral defense in the Martial Arts tree.
2.) Give martial arts an upgrade to their interlock accuracy vs. hackers. (In the form of an initiative buff, since hackers have to roll specials in interlock or use self defense.)
3.) If we're going to allow more buffs for the anti-class, its only fair to give back more debuffs in interlock, that way they have at least a small chance if they get lucky.
To be honest I think the entire thread is rather pointless as hacker is not uber anymore.
For once I agree with you. Well put.
Does this mean you'll be my friend?
Arcanoloth wrote:
no Renzouken is my friend!!
Renzouken wrote:Arcanoloth wrote:Trikraft wrote:Hacker:Seriously, I lol'd. MA's can max out their viral defense quite easily, its called Aikido GM. Hell, I used Karate GM and had a VD of +186. If a MA can't get their viral defense above 180, then they are doing very very very VERY wrong. I'm sure MA's would much prefer defense bonuses vs something else. MA's already have the highest acc and hackers already take a giant IL accuracy penalty. The OP used MKT so he was naturally getting smashed by hackers, thats what hackers do.
1.) Increase the passive viral defense in the Martial Arts tree.
2.) Give martial arts an upgrade to their interlock accuracy vs. hackers. (In the form of an initiative buff, since hackers have to roll specials in interlock or use self defense.)
3.) If we're going to allow more buffs for the anti-class, its only fair to give back more debuffs in interlock, that way they have at least a small chance if they get lucky.
To be honest I think the entire thread is rather pointless as hacker is not uber anymore.
For once I agree with you. Well put.
Does this mean you'll be my friend?
no Renzouken is my friend!!
Arcanoloth wrote:
Mmkay, but you are aware that there are other MA trees yes? Martial Arts is the natural enemy of Hacker, just as Hacker is the natural enemy of Spy, and Spy is the natural enemy of Gunmen, and Gunmen are the natural enemy of Martial Artists. That covers the whole operative tree and the hacker tree. The sim trees in coder are pretty much preyed upon as hackers or operatives depending on the tree (Patcher or Combat Sims). Second, as the natural enemy it is part of the trees responsibility to have IN-BORN defense to the prey of that tree, not exterior buffing as such. Third, MA's have the highest accuracy base eh? Upgrade Attacks ring a bell? In a natual hacker build, even with accuracy debuffs with Ballista, I can rock an MA's world in less than 20 seconds. Not to mention Desperation.
P.S. - If MA's get defense vs. something else, then it breaks the "natural enemy' idea, since they would then be able to prey on two classes.
Trikraft wrote:Hacker:Seriously, I lol'd. MA's can max out their viral defense quite easily, its called Aikido GM. Hell, I used Karate GM and had a VD of +186. If a MA can't get their viral defense above 180, then they are doing very very very VERY wrong. I'm sure MA's would much prefer defense bonuses vs something else. MA's already have the highest acc and hackers already take a giant IL accuracy penalty. The OP used MKT so he was naturally getting smashed by hackers, thats what hackers do.
1.) Increase the passive viral defense in the Martial Arts tree.
2.) Give martial arts an upgrade to their interlock accuracy vs. hackers. (In the form of an initiative buff, since hackers have to roll specials in interlock or use self defense.)
3.) If we're going to allow more buffs for the anti-class, its only fair to give back more debuffs in interlock, that way they have at least a small chance if they get lucky.
To be honest I think the entire thread is rather pointless as hacker is not uber anymore.
Mmkay, but you are aware that there are other MA trees yes? Martial Arts is the natural enemy of Hacker, just as Hacker is the natural enemy of Spy, and Spy is the natural enemy of Gunmen, and Gunmen are the natural enemy of Martial Artists. That covers the whole operative tree and the hacker tree. The sim trees in coder are pretty much preyed upon as hackers or operatives depending on the tree (Patcher or Combat Sims). Second, as the natural enemy it is part of the trees responsibility to have IN-BORN defense to the prey of that tree, not exterior buffing as such. Third, MA's have the highest accuracy base eh? Upgrade Attacks ring a bell? In a natual hacker build, even with accuracy debuffs with Ballista, I can rock an MA's world in less than 20 seconds. Not to mention Desperation.
P.S. - If MA's get defense vs. something else, then it breaks the "natural enemy' idea, since they would then be able to prey on two classes.
Trikraft wrote:
Trikraft wrote:
And the in born defense is in the form of a reason of 25+ (Depending on how you play) giving you viral defense +40-50%. That sounds like an awfully high inborn defense. Oh, and lets not forget the +12% in the Karate tree from the lvl 33 passive buff, and the resistance bonuses in Aikido/Kung Fu. Seriously, anymore and EVERY MA would have max VD, and its already easy enough to do it.
Trikraft wrote:
Trikraft wrote:
I'll point it out again, the OP is an MKT. According to your natural enemy cycle they should get rocked by hackers, he gets rocked by hackers and says they are overpowered, whats exactly is the problem with this?
Mmkay, but you are aware that there are other MA trees yes? Martial Arts is the natural enemy of Hacker, just as Hacker is the natural enemy of Spy, and Spy is the natural enemy of Gunmen, and Gunmen are the natural enemy of Martial Artists. That covers the whole operative tree and the hacker tree. The sim trees in coder are pretty much preyed upon as hackers or operatives depending on the tree (Patcher or Combat Sims).Yes I am aware of that, your point being?
Trikraft wrote:
Second, as the natural enemy it is part of the trees responsibility to have IN-BORN defense to the prey of that tree, not exterior buffing as such.
And the in born defense is in the form of a reason of 25+ (Depending on how you play) giving you viral defense +40-50%. That sounds like an awfully high inborn defense. Oh, and lets not forget the +12% in the Karate tree from the lvl 33 passive buff, and the resistance bonuses in Aikido/Kung Fu. Seriously, anymore and EVERY MA would have max VD, and its already easy enough to do it.
Trikraft wrote:
Third, MA's have the highest accuracy base eh? Upgrade Attacks ring a bell? In a natual hacker build, even with accuracy debuffs with Ballista, I can rock an MA's world in less than 20 seconds. Not to mention Desperation.Thats nice, but there are spy loads that can Rock hackers, Gun loads that can rock MKT's, MA loads that can rock gunmen. And Aikido benefits a great deal from desperation aswell, actually, correct me if I am wrong, but can't ALL trees use desperation? And regardless of upgrade attacks MA still has the highest BASE accuracy, once upgrade attacks is over hackers are very much in trouble in IL. The buff only lasts 20 seconds so you had better pray they are dead soon.
Trikraft wrote:
P.S. - If MA's get defense vs. something else, then it breaks the "natural enemy' idea, since they would then be able to prey on two classes.Again, correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't spy get a +10% defense bonus vs guns and melee in the sneak ability? Does this break the "natural enemy" cycle? And if so, does that mean spy needs to be nerfed?
I'll point it out again, the OP is an MKT. According to your natural enemy cycle they should get rocked by hackers, he gets rocked by hackers and says they are overpowered, whats exactly is the problem with this?
Who ever thinks MA's need more defense against hackers is just deluded.
I've thrown hacks at MA's and had every single one bounce off them. MA's have all the defense they need.
If anything needs changing about hacker it's an increased number to contested rollouts.
I've thrown hacks at MA's and had every single one bounce off them. MA's have all the defense they need.
If anything needs changing about hacker it's an increased number to contested rollouts.
E .· ` ' / ·. F
Your tears fuel me.
Your tears fuel me.
The only thing that bugs the hell out of me is that all the Code and Area Infections stack - that can't be right.
Miggesch wrote:
The only thing that bugs the hell out of me is that all the Code and Area Infections stack - that can't be right.Erm, well it is.
well, as usual.. all of you are wrong.
no matter what wiseass-ex-machina nonsense sneaker says, the hacker dot's stack ON PURPOSE. the devs made that REAL CLEAR UNLESS YOU ARE MENTALLY HANDICAPPED. I REPEAT, THE HAX DOT ATTACKS ARE STACKABLE BY DESIGN AS OF A PATCH THAT CAME -AFTER- THE DOT DMG NERFS.
now.. was that in any way unclear? jesus fuxin christ.. you ppl, sometimes.. *shakes head*
theres obviously something afoot here. like trikraft saying MA needs more viral defense? are you kidding? trikraft, tho, doesnt seem to know what "BASE accuracy" means. base. BASE. BASE.
BASE.
yes, MA has the highest base accuracy. followed by mkt. hacker is somewhere around the middle, lets just say. smg for example has terrible accuracy but has other stuff that more than makes up for it.
but i digress. theres a larger problem at work here and it hasnt changed or otherwise been mitigated since day 1. everyone that logs onto the forum to add their 2 cents to a thread they didnt READ prior to posting *cof*sneaker*cough*kof* likely doesnt use, or rarely used, whatever tree theyre complaining about.
from now on, to say ANYthing about ANY tree, you should first post screenshots of you pvp'ing with it. i know trikraft and sneaker are both very sharp ppl, and i also know that neither of them know hacker well. level to 50 on the usual assassination missions with howitzer THEN you can start god-moding with hacker. til then.. dots arent supposed to stack, right, sneaker? xD
but seriously.. could a dev PLEASE ask the general public to get off hackers' nuts now? please? soon maybe? =D
no matter what wiseass-ex-machina nonsense sneaker says, the hacker dot's stack ON PURPOSE. the devs made that REAL CLEAR UNLESS YOU ARE MENTALLY HANDICAPPED. I REPEAT, THE HAX DOT ATTACKS ARE STACKABLE BY DESIGN AS OF A PATCH THAT CAME -AFTER- THE DOT DMG NERFS.
now.. was that in any way unclear? jesus fuxin christ.. you ppl, sometimes.. *shakes head*
theres obviously something afoot here. like trikraft saying MA needs more viral defense? are you kidding? trikraft, tho, doesnt seem to know what "BASE accuracy" means. base. BASE. BASE.
BASE.
yes, MA has the highest base accuracy. followed by mkt. hacker is somewhere around the middle, lets just say. smg for example has terrible accuracy but has other stuff that more than makes up for it.
but i digress. theres a larger problem at work here and it hasnt changed or otherwise been mitigated since day 1. everyone that logs onto the forum to add their 2 cents to a thread they didnt READ prior to posting *cof*sneaker*cough*kof* likely doesnt use, or rarely used, whatever tree theyre complaining about.
from now on, to say ANYthing about ANY tree, you should first post screenshots of you pvp'ing with it. i know trikraft and sneaker are both very sharp ppl, and i also know that neither of them know hacker well. level to 50 on the usual assassination missions with howitzer THEN you can start god-moding with hacker. til then.. dots arent supposed to stack, right, sneaker? xD
but seriously.. could a dev PLEASE ask the general public to get off hackers' nuts now? please? soon maybe? =D
Cryshal, has it ever occured to you that stuff being implemented on design could be unbalanced?
Like the combat system we had before the revamp, that whole system was in game by design but that doesn't mean we had a balanced combat system.
By design doesn't mean it's flawless.
Like the combat system we had before the revamp, that whole system was in game by design but that doesn't mean we had a balanced combat system.
By design doesn't mean it's flawless.
I'll ask again, seeing as I think it's an important legitimate question that was shrugged off.
Those who disagree with stackable damage over time abilities, would you rather be dealt raw damage? Say, instead of a Hacker hitting you with Code Infection 1.0, Infect Area 1.0, Code Infection 2.0 that will decrease your health slowly and can be cured easily by a Sweep or Antibiotic, you'd rather be hit with a Barrage, Blast, Bomb et cetera that will deal damage instantly, cost only a small amount of extra Inner Strength to cast and in some cases be cast more rapidly than the DoT abilities?
Those who disagree with stackable damage over time abilities, would you rather be dealt raw damage? Say, instead of a Hacker hitting you with Code Infection 1.0, Infect Area 1.0, Code Infection 2.0 that will decrease your health slowly and can be cured easily by a Sweep or Antibiotic, you'd rather be hit with a Barrage, Blast, Bomb et cetera that will deal damage instantly, cost only a small amount of extra Inner Strength to cast and in some cases be cast more rapidly than the DoT abilities?
I think the DOT abilities in destroyer need to be made IL-only, Upgrade Attacks + DOTs is in my opinion the cheapest (and one of the easiest) ways to kill someone. Sure, MAs have defense, but they also don't have an accuracy booster... also judging that the nerf is less for lowerlevel hax (code infections), popping upgrade attacks and overclock and stacking CI4, CI3, CI2, CI1, Plague Zone 1, Plague Zone 2 is quite easy and rather lame to do. When I use hacker I stay away from DOTs just because they feel so cheap to use.
cryshal wrote:
well, as usual.. all of you are wrong.
no matter what wiseass-ex-machina nonsense sneaker says, the hacker dot's stack ON PURPOSE. the devs made that REAL CLEAR UNLESS YOU ARE MENTALLY HANDICAPPED. I REPEAT, THE HAX DOT ATTACKS ARE STACKABLE BY DESIGN AS OF A PATCH THAT CAME -AFTER- THE DOT DMG NERFS.
now.. was that in any way unclear? jesus fuxin christ.. you ppl, sometimes.. *shakes head*
theres obviously something afoot here. like trikraft saying MA needs more viral defense? are you kidding? trikraft, tho, doesnt seem to know what "BASE accuracy" means. base. BASE. BASE.
BASE.
yes, MA has the highest base accuracy. followed by mkt. hacker is somewhere around the middle, lets just say. smg for example has terrible accuracy but has other stuff that more than makes up for it.
but i digress. theres a larger problem at work here and it hasnt changed or otherwise been mitigated since day 1. everyone that logs onto the forum to add their 2 cents to a thread they didnt READ prior to posting *cof*sneaker*cough*kof* likely doesnt use, or rarely used, whatever tree theyre complaining about.
from now on, to say ANYthing about ANY tree, you should first post screenshots of you pvp'ing with it. i know trikraft and sneaker are both very sharp ppl, and i also know that neither of them know hacker well. level to 50 on the usual assassination missions with howitzer THEN you can start god-moding with hacker. til then.. dots arent supposed to stack, right, sneaker? xD
but seriously.. could a dev PLEASE ask the general public to get off hackers' nuts now? please? soon maybe? =D
this post screams attack, and the edit don't help non either so I wish to edit it
Unfortunately you are mistaken.
The hacker dot's stack on purpose. The Development team made multiple posts on the subject saying how it was by design.
yes, MA has the highest base accuracy. followed by mkt. hacker is somewhere around the middle, lets just say. Duelist for example has terrible accuracy but has other stuff that more than makes up for it.
there's a larger problem at work here and it hasn't changed or otherwise been mitigated since day 1. everyone that logs onto the forum to add their 2 cents to a thread they havn't read all the pages prior to posting and whoever makes the complaint likely doesnt use, or rarely uses, whatever tree they're complaining about.
thats all you needed to say, IMO thats all that was relevant. all information in there as far as I know is true
EDIT: SMG info was wrong
no matter what wiseass-ex-machina nonsense sneaker says, the hacker dot's stack ON PURPOSE. the devs made that REAL CLEAR UNLESS YOU ARE MENTALLY HANDICAPPED. I REPEAT, THE HAX DOT ATTACKS ARE STACKABLE BY DESIGN AS OF A PATCH THAT CAME -AFTER- THE DOT DMG NERFS.
Sure, 9mmfu said so. To which I've already replied with:
"Ohhh, I'm sure a lot of things are considered "by design". I'll bet neurodart and sever artery are considered "by design".
Doesn't make it right. Doesn't mean it shouldn't change."
So, because I disagree with their design, I'm now "mentally handicapped"? Ouch.
from now on, to say ANYthing about ANY tree, you should first post screenshots of you pvp'ing with it. i know trikraft and sneaker are both very sharp ppl, and i also know that neither of them know hacker well. level to 50 on the usual assassination missions with howitzer THEN you can start god-moding with hacker. til then.. dots arent supposed to stack, right, sneaker? xD
If you really feel like having this argument, I actually ran hacker longer before you starting playing this game All trees are at 50, and I fiddle with them from time to time. Blah blah blah, veteran argument 4tw, and all that.
Point is, simply because someone disagrees with you, doesn't make them ignorant, or necessarily wrong.
I don't see any logical reason why DoT's should stack; a higher level ability is a higher level ability, and in CR2, that means it overrides its inferiors. "So-and-so already has a higher version of X running" ring a bell?
####> END BROADCAST - HvCFT MARINER ####
Sneaker wrote:
Point is, simply because someone disagrees with you, doesn't make them ignorant, or necessarily wrong.
I don't see any logical reason why DoT's should stack; a higher level ability is a higher level ability, and in CR2, that means it overrides its inferiors. "So-and-so already has a higher version of X running" ring a bell?
Man isn't that the pot calling the kettle black... Yeah about the DOT's I said it in the other post but will put it here again for you....
Okay I know I'm coming into this late but your comment that there is no reason a higher-levl DoT ability should stack on top of its lower level inferior one is off base. Dot's use to not stack at all, but if you remember they changed that due to the fact that everything went to DPS. DOT's were balanced out by the Dev's so that the damage over time woudl be proportional to other damage done by other similar hacker attacks in other trees. If I pay the IS cost to cast a logic blast and a logic barrage then I expect, if I hit to get the damage appropriate to my accuracy and damage against the defencers resistance and defense. The same falls true with all the DOT's. I am paying the memory cost for the ability and the IS cost for the cast and since everything is DPS and since DOT's have been balanced out then I should get the benefit damage. It would be like casting a logic blast 3.0, logic barrage 4.0, logic blast 2.0, and logic barrage 3.0. I paid the cost in memory and IS so should get the benefit of having the damage.
DOT's are damage abilities not state based. States usually don't stack, though some in the hacker tree do and should. Damage simply stacks period. Doesn't matter if I'm using a logic blast then a logic barrage it's damage same with DOT's
Eat a flippin antibiotic, nuff said.
Arcanoloth wrote:
Eat a flippin antibiotic, nuff said.
AB's can be used against anything and everything, rendering their use in an argument null and void. It'd be something like arguing someone could turn on HyperSense to reduce the amount of knives that hit them, in an attempt to render any complaints about knife thrower null. That argument just doesn't work.
broin wrote:
Man isn't that the pot calling the kettle black...
How so? I make sure folks truley are ignorant (or, biased) by engaging them in an argument. For instance, if someone's advocating the removal of HJ, I usually discover that they generally PvP with the zerg, making them biased for its removal. Or, if someone's advocating the nerfing of various classes, I usually discover that it's because they die to them. A lot.
In my case, I call for changes based on the established game mechanics of CR2. If I see a lot of folks using a certain tree a certain way, I investigate why that is.
DOT's are damage abilities not state based. States usually don't stack, though some in the hacker tree do and should. Damage simply stacks period. Doesn't matter if I'm using a logic blast then a logic barrage it's damage same with DOT's
Actually, you make a fine point here.
I'm going to hop ingame and see just how much damage a DoT will do, versus the pure damaging abilities. I'll post back here with results.
####> END BROADCAST - HvCFT MARINER ####
Sneaker wrote:
Yes you can say its the same as telling people to turn on hyper sense but its not the same argument, but hyper sense doesn't fix the broken timers on knives, it doesn't prevent spamming and it sure as hell doesn't reduce the number of knives that hit (with the stupidly high accuracy of MKT's).
Antibiotics are an effective countermeasure against stacked DOT's. You can't deny it.
AB's can be used against anything and everything, rendering their use in an argument null and void. It'd be something like arguing someone could turn on HyperSense to reduce the amount of knives that hit them, in an attempt to render any complaints about knife thrower null. That argument just doesn't work.Actually it does, look at Context. Antibiotics don't stop people from spamming knives in IL. They don't stop someone from stacking LUTS and Firearms Skill. They don't stop someone from using Dim Mak and WDD in subsquent rounds. What they DO is sweep negative effects. It takes 30 seconds for a Code Infection to deal its full damage, that is more then enough time to eat an Anti, and if there are 4-5 DOT's on you its even better. You have a greater chance of sweeping one, or 2, or all of them (and anti's have done this for me many times). Anti's cut the effectiveness of Ravager's in half.
Yes you can say its the same as telling people to turn on hyper sense but its not the same argument, but hyper sense doesn't fix the broken timers on knives, it doesn't prevent spamming and it sure as hell doesn't reduce the number of knives that hit (with the stupidly high accuracy of MKT's).
Antibiotics are an effective countermeasure against stacked DOT's. You can't deny it.
actually, arcanoloth is right. when some of these ppl still confuse resistance with defense and vice versa, you cant simply point out how anti's render dot's to be passive aggressive annoyances, at best. if anything, the hacker dot's should have their dmg increased slightly, because them stacking is what barely lets them compete.
try running hard assassination missions as a noob ravager.. while your little dot's peck away at 3 npcs at the same time, youre really multitasking, yes, but.. theres only ONE of you. and all 3 of them are chipping away at you. not quite the same. so dont forget those health pills along with your anti's. welcome to Neo Fu Online. the thing is, everyone is gonna b1tch about this or that tree until the day the game gets shut down. them's the breaks.
but when the tree on the table for discussion (i use the word loosely) happens to be hacker, the most nerfed tree of all.. you can expect a few ppl to get pissy. the nerf stick is no longer in vogue, ppl. tell ya what.. /ca cryshal and when you see me, send me a tell asking me for the abs you need to MAKE YER OWN GODDAM PILLS AND QUIT CRYIN!#$
=)
but seriously, i love you sneaker <3
try running hard assassination missions as a noob ravager.. while your little dot's peck away at 3 npcs at the same time, youre really multitasking, yes, but.. theres only ONE of you. and all 3 of them are chipping away at you. not quite the same. so dont forget those health pills along with your anti's. welcome to Neo Fu Online. the thing is, everyone is gonna b1tch about this or that tree until the day the game gets shut down. them's the breaks.
but when the tree on the table for discussion (i use the word loosely) happens to be hacker, the most nerfed tree of all.. you can expect a few ppl to get pissy. the nerf stick is no longer in vogue, ppl. tell ya what.. /ca cryshal and when you see me, send me a tell asking me for the abs you need to MAKE YER OWN GODDAM PILLS AND QUIT CRYIN!#$
=)
but seriously, i love you sneaker <3
Hacking is really starting to get on my nerve.
PvP seems to be a mix between Trauma Surgeons spamming area heals, debuffers, and then attackers. I never PvP anymore without an opposing Zerg sporting 3 area healers and a team of hackers.
I wish Hyper Deflect would actually DO SOMETHING. At least in CR1 and max VD it was a 50/50 chance, it seems with Deflect I get hit 80% of the time, and I don't have Zion Magic(tm) so I can't pop a pill, sweep everything, and then roll out like CR1 style..
This game would be a lot better off with hacker removed, just give me MA, guns, and spies please...
PvP seems to be a mix between Trauma Surgeons spamming area heals, debuffers, and then attackers. I never PvP anymore without an opposing Zerg sporting 3 area healers and a team of hackers.
I wish Hyper Deflect would actually DO SOMETHING. At least in CR1 and max VD it was a 50/50 chance, it seems with Deflect I get hit 80% of the time, and I don't have Zion Magic(tm) so I can't pop a pill, sweep everything, and then roll out like CR1 style..
This game would be a lot better off with hacker removed, just give me MA, guns, and spies please...
Remag_Div wrote:
But lets get serious, the thing I have to agree with, are the area healers. IMO, the heals have to be redone (spamming 800+ heals every 4secs is a lil bit too much IMO, also TSs are easy to kill if you know how to do it).
It is really really funny, how people start crying about hackers again. After CR2 went live, nobody gave a sh!t on hackers and all the wannabe pre-CR2 hackers cried about the nerfs. 3/4 year later (!!!!) some peeps figured out how to use the hacker tree and people start to cry again.
And I believe that most of the peeps crying about hackers haven't used it yet. IMO it is one of the hardest trees IG.
For stacking DOTs it is good as it is IMO. If the DOTs won't stack, it makes trees useless and everybody and it dog would load Ballista or Howi (or MKT, KFGM, Sniper). IF the DOTs won't stack, the Rav tree would deal like 1500 dmg (with no resi) in 30 secs ... great compared to a MA that can kill you in 8 secs with wooden dummy and mgk (or dim mak) (I know that WD and so on are state specials, but I can also name EFK or Sky-High-Sidekick that do a lot of dmg). You always have to think about, that the DOTs need 30s (or 15s) to deal the dmg. That's enough time to kill the hacker (or pop an anti).
What is the next people complain about? Mmmh, let me think. We had rifleman, SMGs, MAs, spys, patcher and hacker. Not much left to complain about, eh?
Hacking is really starting to get on my nerve.Yeah, let's make it kungfu online *sigh*
PvP seems to be a mix between Trauma Surgeons spamming area heals, debuffers, and then attackers. I never PvP anymore without an opposing Zerg sporting 3 area healers and a team of hackers.
I wish Hyper Deflect would actually DO SOMETHING. At least in CR1 and max VD it was a 50/50 chance, it seems with Deflect I get hit 80% of the time, and I don't have Zion Magic(tm) so I can't pop a pill, sweep everything, and then roll out like CR1 style..
This game would be a lot better off with hacker removed, just give me MA, guns, and spies please...
But lets get serious, the thing I have to agree with, are the area healers. IMO, the heals have to be redone (spamming 800+ heals every 4secs is a lil bit too much IMO, also TSs are easy to kill if you know how to do it).
It is really really funny, how people start crying about hackers again. After CR2 went live, nobody gave a sh!t on hackers and all the wannabe pre-CR2 hackers cried about the nerfs. 3/4 year later (!!!!) some peeps figured out how to use the hacker tree and people start to cry again.
And I believe that most of the peeps crying about hackers haven't used it yet. IMO it is one of the hardest trees IG.
For stacking DOTs it is good as it is IMO. If the DOTs won't stack, it makes trees useless and everybody and it dog would load Ballista or Howi (or MKT, KFGM, Sniper). IF the DOTs won't stack, the Rav tree would deal like 1500 dmg (with no resi) in 30 secs ... great compared to a MA that can kill you in 8 secs with wooden dummy and mgk (or dim mak) (I know that WD and so on are state specials, but I can also name EFK or Sky-High-Sidekick that do a lot of dmg). You always have to think about, that the DOTs need 30s (or 15s) to deal the dmg. That's enough time to kill the hacker (or pop an anti).
What is the next people complain about? Mmmh, let me think. We had rifleman, SMGs, MAs, spys, patcher and hacker. Not much left to complain about, eh?
CrazyJun wrote:
Remag_Div wrote:Hacking is really starting to get on my nerve.
PvP seems to be a mix between Trauma Surgeons spamming area heals, debuffers, and then attackers. I never PvP anymore without an opposing Zerg sporting 3 area healers and a team of hackers.
I wish Hyper Deflect would actually DO SOMETHING. At least in CR1 and max VD it was a 50/50 chance, it seems with Deflect I get hit 80% of the time, and I don't have Zion Magic(tm) so I can't pop a pill, sweep everything, and then roll out like CR1 style..
This game would be a lot better off with hacker removed, just give me MA, guns, and spies please...
But lets get serious, the thing I have to agree with, are the area healers. IMO, the heals have to be redone (spamming 800+ heals every 4secs is a lil bit too much IMO, also TSs are easy to kill if you know how to do it).
Ganging up on them with a few Snipers/MKTs? You need to kill them in under 5 seconds before they get their godly heals off.
It is really really funny, how people start crying about hackers again. After CR2 went live, nobody gave a sh!t on hackers and all the wannabe pre-CR2 hackers cried about the nerfs. 3/4 year later (!!!!) some peeps figured out how to use the hacker tree and people start to cry again.
And I believe that most of the peeps crying about hackers haven't used it yet. IMO it is one of the hardest trees IG.
Yeah, real hard... hackers one on one can be easily beat, only in a Zerg can they be effective. They just spam debuffs, logic cannon, area DOT's, then when your evade gets shot, hyperjump, reapply, hide behind the zerg and 800 heals. Not that hard buddy...
Remag_Div wrote:
CrazyJun wrote:Remag_Div wrote:Hacking is really starting to get on my nerve.
PvP seems to be a mix between Trauma Surgeons spamming area heals, debuffers, and then attackers. I never PvP anymore without an opposing Zerg sporting 3 area healers and a team of hackers.
I wish Hyper Deflect would actually DO SOMETHING. At least in CR1 and max VD it was a 50/50 chance, it seems with Deflect I get hit 80% of the time, and I don't have Zion Magic(tm) so I can't pop a pill, sweep everything, and then roll out like CR1 style..
This game would be a lot better off with hacker removed, just give me MA, guns, and spies please...
But lets get serious, the thing I have to agree with, are the area healers. IMO, the heals have to be redone (spamming 800+ heals every 4secs is a lil bit too much IMO, also TSs are easy to kill if you know how to do it).
Ganging up on them with a few Snipers/MKTs? You need to kill them in under 5 seconds before they get their godly heals off.
Snipers / MKTs are one way, but they fear hackers most (powerless, IS debuff, DOTs, .......)
It is really really funny, how people start crying about hackers again. After CR2 went live, nobody gave a sh!t on hackers and all the wannabe pre-CR2 hackers cried about the nerfs. 3/4 year later (!!!!) some peeps figured out how to use the hacker tree and people start to cry again.
And I believe that most of the peeps crying about hackers haven't used it yet. IMO it is one of the hardest trees IG.
Yeah, real hard... hackers one on one can be easily beat, only in a Zerg can they be effective. They just spam debuffs, logic cannon, area DOT's, then when your evade gets shot, hyperjump, reapply, hide behind the zerg and 800 heals. Not that hard buddy...
I love people underrating the hacker in 1on1. Makes it easier to get the CQs, but yeah, they are most effective in a team. Anyways I'm fighting solo a lot with my hacker build and hacker is definitely not a support class that have to fear 1on1 situations or have to hide behind the zerg and healers.
CrazyJun wrote:
Remag_Div wrote:CrazyJun wrote:Remag_Div wrote:Hacking is really starting to get on my nerve.
PvP seems to be a mix between Trauma Surgeons spamming area heals, debuffers, and then attackers. I never PvP anymore without an opposing Zerg sporting 3 area healers and a team of hackers.
I wish Hyper Deflect would actually DO SOMETHING. At least in CR1 and max VD it was a 50/50 chance, it seems with Deflect I get hit 80% of the time, and I don't have Zion Magic(tm) so I can't pop a pill, sweep everything, and then roll out like CR1 style..
This game would be a lot better off with hacker removed, just give me MA, guns, and spies please...
But lets get serious, the thing I have to agree with, are the area healers. IMO, the heals have to be redone (spamming 800+ heals every 4secs is a lil bit too much IMO, also TSs are easy to kill if you know how to do it).
Ganging up on them with a few Snipers/MKTs? You need to kill them in under 5 seconds before they get their godly heals off.
Snipers / MKTs are one way, but they fear hackers most (powerless, IS debuff, DOTs, .......)
It is really really funny, how people start crying about hackers again. After CR2 went live, nobody gave a sh!t on hackers and all the wannabe pre-CR2 hackers cried about the nerfs. 3/4 year later (!!!!) some peeps figured out how to use the hacker tree and people start to cry again.
And I believe that most of the peeps crying about hackers haven't used it yet. IMO it is one of the hardest trees IG.
Yeah, real hard... hackers one on one can be easily beat, only in a Zerg can they be effective. They just spam debuffs, logic cannon, area DOT's, then when your evade gets shot, hyperjump, reapply, hide behind the zerg and 800 heals. Not that hard buddy...
I love people underrating the hacker in 1on1. Makes it easier to get the CQs
Hackers are working their way back into the mainstream. This is a good thing. What is the point of an
un(der)used tree?
The issue of healers in PvP basically relates to numbers. They prevent the only chance of getting kills before dying oneself. Is that a game flaw? Not sure. Are the heals too big? Perchace. How useful is a Doctor outside of a team? Zero. I don't know how to make the tree less annoying () without rendering it useless.
I don't think DoT's stacking is broken.
I do think buffs from UGM SHOULD stack - especially with the awakened abilities (pointless otherwise).
I also think they should fix reuse timers full-stop. That would solve an awful lot of complaints.
CrazyJun wrote:
I love people underrating the hacker in 1on1. Makes it easier to get the CQs
I would love to see a hacker defeat me 1 on 1... I don't care how good a hacker you think you are, but 1 on 1, they suck. Anti's, Viral resist, any any combat build with novice skills can beat a hacker 1 on 1.
I love people underrating the hacker in 1on1. Makes it easier to get the CQs
I would love to see a hacker defeat me 1 on 1... I don't care how good a hacker you think you are, but 1 on 1, they suck. Anti's, Viral resist, any any combat build with novice skills can beat a hacker 1 on 1.
Remag_Div wrote:
CrazyJun wrote:lol
I love people underrating the hacker in 1on1. Makes it easier to get the CQs
I would love to see a hacker defeat me 1 on 1... I don't care how good a hacker you think you are, but 1 on 1, they suck. Anti's, Viral resist, any any combat build with novice skills can beat a hacker 1 on 1.
So let me get this straight RemagDiv, you are claiming you can pwn all hackers 1v1, but yet they are also extremely overpowered?
The world will be a much better place when people actually try to make sense.
The world will be a much better place when people actually try to make sense.
Renzouken wrote:
Let me think about the Vector Olympics - 2nd and 3rd place "Best of the Best" -> Hacker .... yup, hacker suck in 1on1
Remag, give me 1 month to lvl my recursion char
Remag_Div wrote:QFMFT RenzCrazyJun wrote:lol
I love people underrating the hacker in 1on1. Makes it easier to get the CQs
I would love to see a hacker defeat me 1 on 1... I don't care how good a hacker you think you are, but 1 on 1, they suck. Anti's, Viral resist, any any combat build with novice skills can beat a hacker 1 on 1.
Let me think about the Vector Olympics - 2nd and 3rd place "Best of the Best" -> Hacker .... yup, hacker suck in 1on1
Remag, give me 1 month to lvl my recursion char
CrazyJun wrote:
Renzouken wrote:Well, that was because the tourney was set up so MKT v Hacker, Guns v MA. Obviously the finals were all guns and hacker, it was more a predetermined thing by virtue of the bracket assignments.Remag_Div wrote:QFMFT RenzCrazyJun wrote:lol
I love people underrating the hacker in 1on1. Makes it easier to get the CQs
I would love to see a hacker defeat me 1 on 1... I don't care how good a hacker you think you are, but 1 on 1, they suck. Anti's, Viral resist, any any combat build with novice skills can beat a hacker 1 on 1.
Let me think about the Vector Olympics - 2nd and 3rd place "Best of the Best" -> Hacker .... yup, hacker suck in 1on1
Remag, give me 1 month to lvl my recursion char
Arcanoloth wrote:
So let me get this straight RemagDiv, you are claiming you can pwn all hackers 1v1, but yet they are also extremely overpowered?
The world will be a much better place when people actually try to make sense.
I didn't see him actually say anything about them being extremely overpowered... I see:
"Hacking is really starting to get on my nerve.
PvP seems to be a mix between Trauma Surgeons spamming area heals, debuffers, and then attackers. I never PvP anymore without an opposing Zerg sporting 3 area healers and a team of hackers.
I wish Hyper Deflect would actually DO SOMETHING. At least in CR1 and max VD it was a 50/50 chance, it seems with Deflect I get hit 80% of the time, and I don't have Zion Magic(tm) so I can't pop a pill, sweep everything, and then roll out like CR1 style.."
And yeah, a team of AoE hackers with Hyper Deflect doing almost nothing even in Block tactics is going to get on anyones nerve.
####> END BROADCAST - HvCFT MARINER ####
Bayamo wrote:
Yeah, it's true that the finals were predetermined with MKT v Hacker and Guns v MA (nevertheless it shows that hackers aren't useless in 1on1 ), but there are also hackers that do quite good in the Vector Champions League and there are mixed fights.
Edit: @sneaker: you got hacked with the same attack 10,000 times with and without hyper deflect running to know that HD does nothing?
CrazyJun wrote:Renzouken wrote:Well, that was because the tourney was set up so MKT v Hacker, Guns v MA. Obviously the finals were all guns and hacker, it was more a predetermined thing by virtue of the bracket assignments.Remag_Div wrote:QFMFT RenzCrazyJun wrote:lol
I love people underrating the hacker in 1on1. Makes it easier to get the CQs
I would love to see a hacker defeat me 1 on 1... I don't care how good a hacker you think you are, but 1 on 1, they suck. Anti's, Viral resist, any any combat build with novice skills can beat a hacker 1 on 1.
Let me think about the Vector Olympics - 2nd and 3rd place "Best of the Best" -> Hacker .... yup, hacker suck in 1on1
Remag, give me 1 month to lvl my recursion char
Yeah, it's true that the finals were predetermined with MKT v Hacker and Guns v MA (nevertheless it shows that hackers aren't useless in 1on1
), but there are also hackers that do quite good in the Vector Champions League and there are mixed fights.Edit: @sneaker: you got hacked with the same attack 10,000 times with and without hyper deflect running to know that HD does nothing?
anyone needs to do mech missions, /ca me, ill gladly grind you. you need to keep your a-ss in gear tho, i get impatient sometimes. then we, and i guess remag, will see if there are more than like 4-5 good hackers ingame haha.
no, hacker is not overpowered. it has some unusual strengths but also some unusual weaknesses. thats about the long and short of it. those of you that get pounced by hackers on some sort of regular basis need to change it up. adapt, or fall down and die with the rest.
no, hacker is not overpowered. it has some unusual strengths but also some unusual weaknesses. thats about the long and short of it. those of you that get pounced by hackers on some sort of regular basis need to change it up. adapt, or fall down and die with the rest.
Hackers are wonderful in 1 on 1 situations, and I've proved it a few times on Recursion. They can be easily beat though.
'nuff said.
'nuff said.
Arcanoloth wrote:
The world will be a much better place when people actually try to read what I say...
And I'll be waiting CrazyJun...
So let me get this straight RemagDiv, you are claiming you can pwn all hackers 1v1, but yet they are also extremely overpowered?
The world will be a much better place when people actually try to make sense.
The world will be a much better place when people actually try to read what I say...
And I'll be waiting CrazyJun...
Remag_Div wrote:
Don't need to highlight the most important passages, your smart enough to find them yourself.
Claiming that hackers hit more often than they did in CR 1 (80% of the time compared to 50% of the time) sounds an awful lot like you are claiming they are overpowered. Claiming that hyper deflect does not defend against hacks at all sounds like you are claiming they are overpowered.
Then you ask for it to be removed from the game, thats the ultimate nerf reserved for classes/abilities that are super overpowered.
Hacking is really starting to get on my nerve.
I wish Hyper Deflect would actually DO SOMETHING. At least in CR1 and max VD it was a 50/50 chance, it seems with Deflect I get hit 80% of the time, and I don't have Zion Magic(tm) so I can't pop a pill, sweep everything, and then roll out like CR1 style..
This game would be a lot better off with hacker removed, just give me MA, guns, and spies please...
Don't need to highlight the most important passages, your smart enough to find them yourself.
Claiming that hackers hit more often than they did in CR 1 (80% of the time compared to 50% of the time) sounds an awful lot like you are claiming they are overpowered. Claiming that hyper deflect does not defend against hacks at all sounds like you are claiming they are overpowered.
Then you ask for it to be removed from the game, thats the ultimate nerf reserved for classes/abilities that are super overpowered.
Huh. Arcanoloth, I'm seeing several "sounds like", and not one "you said".
Me thinks you read a lot more into his post than he intended.
####> END BROADCAST - HvCFT MARINER ####
Sneaker wrote:
He went above and beyond.
Yeah, I really want hacker removed from the game... Sarcasm goes a long way.
Huh. Arcanoloth, I'm seeing several "sounds like", and not one "you said".
Me thinks you read a lot more into his post than he intended.
He went above and beyond.
Yeah, I really want hacker removed from the game...
Sarcasm goes a long way.I never put words in peoples mouths, unlike some others