IL while jumping wth

Focus (I think) gives MA damage and Ballistic Acc, so to be fair an MA will have an *OK* Ballistic Acc.

Regardless, this is extremely annoying for MA's cause they need to get into IL to pwn you and Bunnyhopping prevents that and MA's have the hardest time preventing bunnyhopping.

Arcanoloth wrote:

Focus (I think) gives MA damage and Ballistic Acc, so to be fair an MA will have an *OK* Ballistic Acc.

Regardless, this is extremely annoying for MA's cause they need to get into IL to pwn you and Bunnyhopping prevents that and MA's have the hardest time preventing bunnyhopping.

Yea but self defense gives low Ballistic accuracy anyway, I think it's about 70pts. if the enemy is running with Hyper Dodge then you probably won't hit him.

898989 wrote:

pack-hunter wrote:

898989 wrote:

GoDGiVeR wrote:

898989 wrote:

You just never give up do you ... use da frickin root abilities hindering shot is THE standard ability...

Why should I give up? It's not the matter of whatever tactic you use. Not the matter of what abilities you use. It's the matter that all your super rooting, movement debuffing, stunning, pacifiying abilities have not  been designed to do what they can do in this case. Root is not meant to stop people from bugging your IL timer. That doesn't mean it can't work that way.

So you will only use root abilities to stop ppl from running from you but you refuse to use it as a help against this "issue" as you call it.... Cmon thats just stupid and you know it >_>

Just because there is a workaround doesn't make the problem disappear. You have a single mind and run the same excuse time and time again, which doesn't always work, what most people are trying to shout down your wax clogged ears is that jumping around like an overexcited bunny rabbit is exploiting
there are no exceptions and it's about time it got fixed after the 2 years it's been used.

get UPSET already boi ... LOL ... could it be that your from Recursion ?? Just assuming cuz your a bit emo *cough cough*

nothing wrong with emo's, if your judging reactions by devisions in the populations youth then I'm guessing your 13-14? And no I'm not from Recursion, I'm from Vector and the only thing that upsets me is the fact that you don't have any way to defend yourself against what I'm saying so your repeating a null point.

I'm not repeating a null point wth ? Theres only one key to this problem ATM and that is using root abilities. Don't you get it?

I'm not repeating a null point wth ? Theres only one key to this problem ATM and that is using root abilities. Don't you get it?

898989 wrote:

I'm not repeating a null point wth ? Theres only one key to this problem ATM and that is using root abilities. Don't you get it?

or to fix it so that you can't normal jump while under combat effects or get it so you have a 100% chance to IL your opponent when he jumps.

Your point is null because we've explained that for MA they won't hit someone with Hyper Dodge on with a chance higher than 1/10 and even if they don't it's a 1/2 chance and your repeating root like it's godly the root only works for 8 seconds, thats 2 hits of the evade, assuming the target is on at least speed, or if they are actually using states to their advantage block, you might just break it or if your unlucky you just won't.

pack-hunter wrote:

898989 wrote:

I'm not repeating a null point wth ? Theres only one key to this problem ATM and that is using root abilities. Don't you get it?

or to fix it so that you can't normal jump while under combat effects or get it so you have a 100% chance to IL your opponent when he jumps.

Your point is null because we've explained that for MA they won't hit someone with Hyper Dodge on with a chance higher than 1/10 and even if they don't it's a 1/2 chance and your repeating root like it's godly the root only works for 8 seconds, thats 2 hits of the evade, assuming the target is on at least speed, or if they are actually using states to their advantage block, you might just break it or if your unlucky you just won't.

Dude I am not defending the jumpers, I don't even use it often. I'm just saying that the only alternative to removing this "exploit" is to stick to the root abilities for now. Your getting involved much too deep in this, I didn't even mean to argue mate. Just tell me how big do think the chance is, that they will be getting rid of this issue in the next 3-4 months? it like a 5% chance, or less cuz they cant or won't even get rid of the big stacking issues this game has.

New ability, hyper jump bulldog =) (Ahem) opponent jumps, you jump into them and bull dog them into the ground.... /walk away before someone notices.....

TimeMaker wrote:

New ability, hyper jump bulldog =) (Ahem) opponent jumps, you jump into them and bull dog them into the ground.... /walk away before someone notices.....

No, I want a "Homing Punt". When they jump around they automatically get a punt on their *CENSORED*

TimeMaker wrote:

New ability, hyper jump bulldog =) (Ahem) opponent jumps, you jump into them and bull dog them into the ground.... /walk away before someone notices.....

No, I want a "Homing Punt". When they jump around they automatically get a punt on their *CENSORED*

This does need to be fixed its really annoying to watch people jumping over you in pvp to avoid IL, we should still be able to attack there evade even if they jump and as punishment for the other person who is jumping, when there evade is broke there abs should not work if caught while jumping. Kinda like being caught while HJ.

I've browsed through most of whats been said here I think. So now I'm gonna throw in my 2 cents.

This "exploit" is whats been forced upon out of interlock classes since the begining of CR2. This "exploit" has been around since the begining of CR1, but was never really a big problem in CR1 for the simple reason interlock wasnt feared as much by classes that have little to no interlock move, and the reason for that is because there was no contested withdraw in CR1... As it exists today, once interlocked, if your build isnt ment for interlock, your pretty much screwed, just because you cant roll out to get your shield up and start attacking out of interlock like your ment to.

For thoes posting here who never saw CR1, or werent here for the very begining of CR2, the way it used to be is you couldnt attempt to interlock someone when slowed, or rooted. This ment that assassins could break your shield, slow you or root you, and even if you managed to pop their shield, they'd be able to get their assassin move off. Thats how it was in CR1, and carried over into CR2 in the very begining until it was changed. What it allowed for thoe was for a person to have a way and means to evade being interlocked once their shield was down. To tell an MKT/assassin that they have no way to evade interlock means that outside of disable evasion, you either have to catch someone while they're on green fist and hope to pop their shield in 1 hit, otherwise your gonna have to run off and wait til you can get your shield up so you can try to land your attack.

So basically what your looking at is it takes 3 hits on green fist to break the shield of someone who's on block tactics, which at most takes less than 10 seconds. So to a class that isnt suited for fighting in interlock, that means once your shield is gone, you can attempt to root/stun/bottleneck or slow the person which at most is only gonna buy you another 10 or so seconds. The person your trying to hit if they're a MA is just gonna flip up block tactics which means probably most of what you try to hit them with is gonna miss, and then your stuck in interlock getting your *** handed to you and not being able to roll out.

Now on the flip side, MKT and sniper are the 2 classes that can attack out of stealth and deliver mass damage in an instant. Sniper on one hand can hit you from 20+ meters with no warning or way to evade it at all what so ever, but aginst an MKT, jumping can save you when you've been hit with disable evasion, jumping can save you if the MKT has broken your shield but not rooted you or slowed your movement speed. So when fighting an MKT, it does provide you with the option to save yourself essentially from being hit with an assassin move. So as much as thats a hinderance to playing as an MKT/assassin, its beneficial to everyone else, and from the perspective of an MKT/assassin, its easy to adapt to and counter by slowing/rooting your target.

Bottom line here is, all fighting eventually leads to interlock, and interlock as of now equals a death trap for thoes not suited to fighting interlock, and while this maybe labeled as an "exploit" by some people, its the only alternative we have currently to avoid interlock other than hyperjumping away flat out. So for this to change, then I think its only fair that enrage be made to keep people in interlock, and to make withdraw uncontested like how it was in CR1, where if you cant keep someone in interlock, then thats your problem. Otherwise something needs to be done to make interlock less feared by thoes not suited to fight in interlock.

all you need to keep roll out as being uncontested is a 5 second debuff making it impossible to roll out via withdraw. Specials such as sideroll, and rifle buttsmash should be able to be thrown in que right as soon as you enter IL if you want out that fast since thoes would be contested still. But giving an MA 5 seconds as soon as interlock starts, is more than enough time for an MA to try to attempt to land one move to enrage you to keep you in interlock.

The way it used to be in CR1 was that our debuffs actually lasted for a worthwhile ammount of time. An MA could interlock you, hit you with falling kick to powerless you with a 40% chance to enrage you, tomo nage would do a 30 second enrage, sidekick combo had the chance to stun and enrage, punch reversal did powerless and 40% chance to enrage. Rifleman could slow you or stun you from outta interlock if they actually wanted to IL you and keep you in IL, smg spec's have several roots that could keep someone in IL, and MKT could zap you with any one of their knives to slow you to keep you in interlock for the duration, and hackers had bottleneck which would keep you stationary for well over a minute (cant remember the exact debuff time, its been to long) and they also had root 1.0 and 2.0 which could root someone for 60 seconds at the 2.0 level. So there were ways of making it so a person was unable to roll out, either before you got into IL, or as soon as the IL combat started.

The thing is, and this is something most people dont even realize IMO, is movement speed bonus is tied into belief, which is an attribute that MA's naturally have, meaning as is, when you slow an MA with a nero dart, deadly throw, or sever artery, they're able to move at a decent clip still, which means they can still run in and bust your shield. Now for an MKT, if your trying to fight completely ranged with out landing a staggering throw, rooting your target is next to worthless waste of IS because cripling throw and paralzing throw dont do much for damage, and the root is broken on the first tick of damage. And if your target is still running at you at basically 100% movement speed, not much you can do to evade becoming interlocked. And this entire time your gonna be trying to hit a person who's just sitting on block tactics except for the half a second they flip it over to green to try to break your shield. So with most of your attacks missing while you can go ranged because the person is on block the entire time, you dont have enough of an opportunity to go ranged and be able to kill your target before becoming interlocked. And as a ranged class other than MKT, you probably have little to no chance at winning with out being able to roll out and get your shield back up. That being said, I know it is possible for hackers to score kills in IL, and possible for rifleman/snipers to get a few duelist abilities so your able to do something from within interlock, but its still a style of fighting that your not suited for giving the advantage to someone with more, and more damaging IL abilities (MA's, duelist/smg specs).

So with out something being changed to make it easier for non interlock classes to get in and out of interlock easier, or a way to avoid becoming interlocked even once your shield is gone... Im quite content seeing people bunny hop to avoid becoming interlocked, because their bunny hopping is by far prefferable to them flat out hyperjumping. At least while they're bunny hopping, you still have a chance to slow/root them, and then interlock them, where as the alternative is them hyperjumping away, which is something you cant stop.

I believe that there is no "out of Interlock" build per say. Of course you can make a build that is suited for IL but I've never known a build that will at least stand a chance in IL. That goes for Hackers and Riflemen. Bunnyhop jumping doesn't expand the possibilities of IL it just something people use to help them win, as far as it goes, there is nothing wrong with that, but when your using a bug to get that advantage then I don't think that it should be in the game.

Like I said, its not impossible to still score kills and be able to fight in interlock as a hacker, rifleman, or MKT, but these 3 classes are best suited for out of interlock combat, hense they try to avoid it as much as possible, ergo they bunny hop.

pack-hunter wrote:

All builds have the possibility for Interlock combat, My rifleman/sniper build isn't suited but I can roll out, I can do power/grab state specials, I can essentially hold my own in combat for a while on a build that isn't suited for interlock combat, thats just improvisation, which is what I think this game needs rather than a bunch of people running around jumping everywhere. On the case of avoiding Sneak attacks, this makes the problem worst, when a sneak attack is attempted, the attack timer activates, but obviously the attack is not attempted due to the opponent being 3 meters in the air at the time, which again makes it wholly unfair. As much as it may complicate the system and make it more dynamic and diverse, there are just too many problems with it to make it an adequate and acceptable tactic.

you can attempt to roll out, but it can take 5+ rolls before your able to roll out, and when fighting an MA thats doing 600+ dmg non state specials on you, in 5 rolls you could be dead, thats 5 rolls that you could have at least had a higher chance at winning had you attempted to use a special that has a CT or now "accuracy" bonus on it.

And of the issue of avoiding sneak attacks, for as much as people gripe about MKT's/assassins, I would think that this would be something that would be welcomed more than anything. For me playing as an MKT, its easy enough for me to counter by sticking a dart in the person, or rooting them, which is basically standard operating procedure for me anyway since I know this tactic does exist. There's pros and cons to both sides of it.

Thing is like I said, all fighting leads to interlock eventually, and to quickly, and with block tactics being able to function out of interlock and still apply its bonus, it puts non IL classes at a disadvantage, because they're not able to stay out of interlock, and then once interlocked, they cant easily get out. So to remove/fix this with out doing something making it easier to get out of interlock means now you just have more hyperjumpers, which also isnt good.

While I never 'bunny-hop' it's interesting to note that if I use a flip (direction jump) in combat it's because I'm an MA trying to get the tackle on someone first.  If my safety is compromised as a Sniper I just HJ out of trouble or root for long enough to escape and re-conceal. 

Edit: Oh but it's a pure fact that enrage needs to work.  I think the 'out of interlock class' situation would be just fine if things like Gaussian Shield made any difference. 

gausian blur isnt enough... There needs to be a better way to escape interlock than what there currently is or a better way to evade becoming interlocked. You see people doing the whole bunny hop crap because they know if they get IL'd it'll probably be the death of them, and the only other alternative for them is just to HJ, neither of which are decent solutions.

the options you have are make shields super strong, so give evade interlock bonues to classes that are primarily ranged, meaning their shields can take 5-6 hits before breaking, which again isnt a very good solution because if your an MA trying to fight them, once their shield is gone, they can still HJ, and you'll be probably pretty low on HP, and still not have been able to get an IL to even try to land some moves which means you'd be cannon fodder mainly.

And the other option you have is to make roll out uncontested, which takes it back to how it was in CR1, and the only modification that should be made is to say that your stuck in IL for at least 5 seconds which is enough for a person to get 1 roll off to try to apply a debuff to force you to stay in interlock. If enrage worked properly, then it wouldnt be bad, in CR1 it was really really easy to keep people IL'd for long durations, but in CR1 ranged classes and classes that sucked in IL didnt have much fear of becoming interlocked because it was semi easyish to roll out, where as right now its not, IL is mainly a death trap for thoes who lack the moves to compete in IL.

And to leave it as is, your alternative is to have bunny hop like you currently have, or an increased ammount of HJ'ers. And like I've said, given the choices, your better off with the bunny hopping just because you still have a chance of catching them, where as if they hyperjump, they're simply gone, and better luck next time.

slowing a target via movement speed debuff, or root is suppose to keep the person in interlock and stop people from using specials like sideroll escape to get out of interlock. So enrage is most heavily needed for MA'a. Duelist have duel pistol dash which has a chance to enrage, rifleman have a special that roots, and another that slows, and smg spec's have several abilities that root.

So to give an example of how a fight back in CR1 used to go, one of my favorite load outs was SMG spec, with kungfu down to wooden dummy drill. To start the fight, I'd try to land a covering fire which used to take off 10 CT and had a chance to root. Assuming it didnt root, I'd interlock, and hit the person with falling kick to powerless them, and if that didnt enrage them, they would then roll out. Using the 5 second immunity buff, I would try to land a supressing fire to root them for 30 seconds, if the root hit, then I would again try to hit them with a covering fire to zap another 10 CT debuff on them. Now the thing to remember is back then if you were slowed or rooted, you could not attempt to interlock someone, so standing next to a target while they were rooted with your shield down wasnt an issue seeing as they couldnt interlock you. So now assuming you could land that root, you would then enter back into interlock and try to powerless them. So once your target is rooted and powerless, then you'd go for a misdirect punch to blind them which took off 30CT, and lowered their rolls by enough that you could keep hitting them over and over again with a basic blue fist attack to try to daze the target. Upon getting a daze you'd then hit them with wooden dummy drill which back then used to do like 600-700 dmg or so as I remember, but also put a 20 second stun on your target, and as soon as the wooden dummy drill went through you'd hit with a full auto redux. And at this point if the person had any health left at all what so ever, they were stunned and werent capable of doing anything allowing you to work through your specials again and re apply a powerless and blind to your target to keep them weakened.

The reasons people didnt like the system and how it worked in CR1 was that if you didnt know what you were doing, it very much so seemed like the type of fighting where the first to become powerless was the loser, and this wasnt the case. But the thing that made CR1 like 10x better than what we currently have is the fact that while some of the debuffs did last a bit to long, they all functioned and had their purpose. Currently things that remove accuracy, or CT like blind, and things like enrage, produce very little if any effect at all in causing your opponent to lose their next roll. As it is currently, you have very little reason to use one damage causing special over another other than because of the overall damage it does, where as in CR1 you worried more about just doing damage, you worried about keeping up with the debuffs. You wanted to keep your target powerless so they couldnt use any specials, you wanted to keep your target enraged so they couldnt roll out on you, and you also wanted to keep your target stunned or blinded so their combat rolls rolled like crap. Overall it made a single fight alot more complex than just trying to keep up a chain of nothing but pure damage.

Now, Im not trying to reminisce about the good ol' days, but the point im getting at is I dont see why we couldnt bring a part of the complexity of CR1 back, remove the contested withdraw, get enrage working properly, and make it so you need to keep your target enraged otherwise they can roll out.

for an MKT its not that big of a deal thoe, you go in for your assassin move, and then you go for a deadly throw which would slow the target and then keep them IL'd. Or you could slow/root them first, and then go in and try to break their shield and get your assassin move off. If you were to add like a 5 second debuff to force you to stay in interlock once the interlock combat has started, it would give everyone pretty much a chance to do something to force a person to stay in interlock.

Most rooting attacks that you have implied Anx can't be used from within IL, there are no attacks in Hacker to keep a player remaining in IL when they are in IL themselves.

Rifleman has 2 moves that can be used in IL, one of which is a state and the other just makes the rifleman roll out, so again the opponent need wait 8 seconds max before he can roll.

SMG has no moves that root while in IL.

Duelist has Dual Pistol Dash, can only be used out of IL, that has a very limited duration and a long re-use timer.

MA have very few abilities that enrage as well.

Meaning yes you can get a few rolls in IL but after those effects have gone they can't be implemented again unless you yourself roll out and apply them which is nonsense, of course since it is contested it isn't the same as the old system but it still presents a challenge, those who have dumped extra points into Vitality usually are able to roll out much easier than someone who has put them into another defense.

MA's cannot do anything unless they are in IL, once in IL they also have to keep them there which I find enough of a problem without them having to worry about actually keeping them in there in the first place.

ranged classes shouldnt be concerned with stayin in interlock with a target, as their main concern should be staying out of interlock and keeping their target slowed/rooted and unable to hyperjump.

And your also looking at things as they are instead of how they could be. It wouldnt take much for them to add some states to different specials to make up for MA's not having tomo nage as a non state special that would enrage for 30 seconds.

And as for vitality, I've had 30 vitality, and still not been able to roll out. Vast majority of the bonuses you get from attributes only work when your running a buff of the same type. So kinda like how belief modifies movement speed, but doesnt take effect until you turn on hyperspeed.

Like I said the bottom line is all combat eventually leads to interlock, and leads to interlock way to fast. And for a class not suited to fighting in interlock, your options atm are either bunny hop in hopes to get your shield back up, or... flat out hj away. Now given the options, which would you rather have people doing? To change nothing and to fix the bunny hop "bug", you leave people no choice but to HJ, which means basically for alot of classes, as soon as their shield gets popped, they're gonna jump.

1. Widen the window of IL opportunity, fix the no tactic problem preferably, but I wouldn't mind either way, leave it for the first patch I'd love to see the faces on the regular bunny hoppers when they get IL'd every time and loose their abilities
2. Remove the ability to jump when under the combat state, maybe it's a little harsh but it's a fix, I don't see any other way around it.

pack-hunter wrote:

I'd rather have them Hyper Jump away, if they bunny hop and you've broken their evade, they'll have to HJ anyway, because they can't raise evade while I'm following them on the ground. And when say a Rifleman is attacking, if I attack when they're on Power it takes 1 hit on green it goes. I'm also against changing shield damage levels because of the amount of IS that is drained when someone impacts the evade, Plus again it would make it harder for the IL classes to fight, when I fight broin who is one of the Best Hackers on vector he usually beats me because he knows how to keep me out of IL without resorting to tactics like bunny hopping and I'll say that he usually beats me unless I get him into IL quickly, even then the fights quite even. Bunnyhopping still causes also the break of IL, for a round and a half, giving the bunnyhopper a chance to attack the opponent quite easily with little resistance from the opponent.

um... if they're jumping up and down to evade interlock, and your spamming on interlock trying to catch them, it triggers your interlock timer, meaning they can get a shield up. So they arent forced to HJ...

More than that, if they're jumping up and down to evade interlock, you still have a chance at catching them where as if you force them to HJ, they're simply gone and better luck next time.

pack-hunter wrote:

This is still a bug, it's a bug that is not required, CR1 it was a massive problem, people used to just roll out whenever they were powerless and jump up and down on the spot till the powerless layed off, in CR2 it's not as much as a problem but it still breaks the IL system, it still allows you to skip a couple of seconds and go into free fire, it still gives and advantage, however long it's been around, it's still a bug, it still needs to be fixed and I see 2 ways of doing it

1. Widen the window of IL opportunity, fix the no tactic problem preferably, but I wouldn't mind either way, leave it for the first patch I'd love to see the faces on the regular bunny hoppers when they get IL'd every time and loose their abilities
2. Remove the ability to jump when under the combat state, maybe it's a little harsh but it's a fix, I don't see any other way around it.

I do see the fact that it will add some variety to the combat system and it does give the builds not suited to IL a chance to escape, but in doing so it makes it almost impossible for the IL builds to fight which isn't fair, MA using hindering shot is preposterous , it's not an MA move, it is a gun move, and it's difficult for the MA to hit.

Going further out and lets make it more philosophical and test some minds eh? People are saying that this bug should be left well alone, then should the Passive code (the healing ability that gives 25pts to healing) have been fixed when it used to be able to be on constantly? it gave healers an actual chance to fight and it expanded the horizons, more people used healers for combat because it was effective when coupled with that so why was it removed?

it was never a massive problem in CR1, very few people ever did it, and back then the penalty for getting caught mid air was even worse cause you had no chance of rolling out at all.

And you cant remove the ability to jump up and down in combat state. We dont pvp on a single massive terrain thats nothing but a flat space, and you need to be able to jump over walls, off ledges, etc... to get into the fight, or to escape from a fight.

Like I said, the bottom line that is undeniable is the fact that all combat eventually leads to interlock, and for classes that cant survive in interlock something needs to be done to allow them to either evade becoming interocked, or to be able to escape interlock. You wanna talk about fair, well how is it fair that an MA can sit on block tactics evading most of the stuff you can throw/shoot/launch at them, pop your shield with very little effort, then interlock you and be able to deliver 600+ damage non state specials. Block tactics effecting anything out side of interlock is a joke tbh, but its what we have, and when someone's just sitting there on block, the stuff that you need to hit to keep yourself out of interlock misses, your screwed and have no choice but to HJ then at that point when you have no alternative.

Im all for fixing legit bugs, but when fixing a bug is gonna force more people into hyperjumping, I think it gets to be a question of priority and prefference, because I'd much rather have the bunny hoppers than more HJ'ers. Every class but MA's are capable of slowing a person when they're bunny hopping, which will result in them being unable to HJ, and allow you to IL them. And in group pvp, if your an MA and working as a team, it wont be long before someone on your team will slow the person you want to IL anyway.

So what are the single MA supposed to do about it, you can't just ignore a certain group because it's convienient. CR2 was designed to balance the system. The removal of the bug will make the system more stable and more fair than if the bug remains in place.

did I say to leave them out? I said given the choice of removing this "bug" with out doing anything else to make interlock seem like less of a death trap for thoes not suited to fight in interlock which is gonna result in more hyperjumping, and leaving it in and having people bunny hop, I'll take the bunny hoppers.

I already said what I think should be done if this "bug" is to be fixed. Make roll out uncontested, impliment a 5 second debuff to say that you cannot roll out via the withdraw ability once interlock combat is started, make enrage function correctly, thus when an MA starts interlock combat, they have 1 chance at winning a roll with some move to cause an enraged state for 10+ seconds that will force the person to stay in interlock.

yea sometimes in trying to roll out you can make it out within one combat roll... but this always isnt the case, sometimes it can take 5+ which is bs.

And keep something in mind, MA's can do 600-1000 dmg non state specials when the correct chain of abilities are used. Adding in a 5 second debuff at the start of interlock and then if the person can land a move which would cause a 10+ second enrage, that gives you 15 seconds or more. Keep in mind where it says 10 plus seconds worth of enrage. And thats in addition to the fact that MA's have a 4 second powerless off punch reversal, you can stun with falling kick, and you can cause a confuse off w/e kungfu move it is. So there would be ways for an MA to keep a target in interlock.

Having a system such as that in place takes it back to how it was in CR1 which was that your responsible for keeping your target in interlock, the person remaining in interlock isnt up to some bs roll and weather or not you get lucky enough that they cant roll out. It gives you the power TO keep them them interlocked.

And at the same time, you make interlock less feared because you can roll out if your able to sweep your debuffs etc and get out.

I like how swimming started this thread but he does it all the time just thought id add that in

1. A lot of MA complaints because they can't hold anyone in IL for a good length of time
2. After about 3-4 months some MA will learn of a way to hold their opponent in and everyone will copy the same build and then you get all out of IL fighters complaining.

you forget that things are subject to change, stop looking at how it is, and look at how it could be with minimal effort.

Duelist:  dual pistol execution - required states stun - causes 15 second enrage.  pistol aerial - causes 6 second stun. Pistol barrage - 40% chance to enrage for 10 seconds, etc....

Doesnt take much work to add enrage as a debuff to some abilities.

Thats just from CR1, in any case removing DPE from the normal attack equation just makes duelist a hell of a lot harder, due to the damage output of the build being nowhere near any of the other builds, making their major attack require states it just plain mean. Barrage is also the only attack that is not state special in the duelist tree no-way should they get rid of that ability.

the point Im making is things with little effort can change.

And on the note of making stun a required state for DPE, thats how it was in CR1, and it was easy to hit once you landed your aerial and got your stun off. And in CR2, once you stun a person, it will be a special with an accuracy bonus vs. a regular attack, so you should have a good chance at landing it.

• Do a lot of attacks and debuffs out of IL
• Do most attacks in IL

• Do a lot of attacks in IL
• Do nothing except free fire out of IL

Relox wrote:

I like how swimming started this thread but he does it all the time just thought id add that in

I haven't been on for over a month... and I only start doing it when endo is around and starts annoying me with it...

1. Load up more attacks to keep you out of IL.
2. Load up attacks to give you more strength in IL.
3. Do nothing at all and cry every time an MA pounds you to mush.
4. Exploit the bunny hopping bug.

The Leo wrote:

Relox wrote:

I like how swimming started this thread but he does it all the time just thought id add that in

I haven't been on for over a month... and I only start doing it when endo is around and starts annoying me with it...

You still do it which is why I dont think you should be complaining about it on forums

Relox wrote:

The Leo wrote:

Relox wrote:

I like how swimming started this thread but he does it all the time just thought id add that in

I haven't been on for over a month... and I only start doing it when endo is around and starts annoying me with it...

You still do it which is why I dont think you should be complaining about it on forums

Erm you wanna *CENSORED*? take it to the PM system I actually feel like discussing it without resorting to the use of crude insults.

pack-hunter wrote:

Erm you wanna *CENSORED*? take it to the PM system I actually feel like discussing it without resorting to the use of crude insults.

Its more on-topic than talking about Withdraw

Fix now. kthx.

Fix now. kthx.