Assassin and MKT worthless for pvp

#35500000258 03/18/2006 18:47:30 Assassin and MKT worthless for pvp

I can't actually see a scenario, tactic or strategy that even give me hope I could kill a lone opponent of the same level as me...has anyone had any sucess or can offer any any advice?

If you agree please respond also because as it stands a very valid tree of Mxo will die here unless something serious is done!

#35500000261 03/18/2006 21:23:43 Re: Assassin and MKT worthless for pvp

ask xblindsidex. His suplex did around 1,800 dmg to me, and it took at least 5 players to take him down over 5-10mins. He had MKT loaded i believe, with some healing too.

#35500000263 03/19/2006 10:08:00 Re: Assassin and MKT worthless for pvp

I'm almost never loaded as MKT/Assassin, but PvP was going down and I didn't feel like changing attributes..
I found it, well, good in some aspects and bad in others... Knives aren't near as strong as they used to be, but the MKT buff pretty much makes sure you can hit whatever you like... Most of the assassin moves are toned down, bulldog and reverse bulldog don't do near the damage they used to... and if you're not a hyperjumper, you pretty much have one shot to get a move in before you're found out... I found knives more of a crutch for my assassin abilities, using them to slow whomevers movement speed to get far enough away to get in disguise or sneak to hit another one.. Suplex is a tad over powered right now, in my opinion, but its no worse than bulldog is currently... the best combo I can think of as far as MKT/Assassin goes, would be to suplex, then hit with throat cutting throw, in interlock, then sideroll escape... since you don't have a whole lot of options in interlock... One think I did notice that will be helpful to MKT/Assassin, is as long as you can stay out of interlock, you have a step above everybody else, because like yesterday, I was all focus and perception, with the rest in reason, so I had good thrown resistance, and ballistic resistance... as well as defense for both, stack that with hyper dodge, and hyper deflect, and your bases are pretty much covered as far as defense goes, I was also rocking about 215 ballistic/melee defense... So as a whole i think its a good class.. its balanced more so than it is on live.. it does enough damage to help out, but its a pain to try to tank someone with... but then, I guess that's why it's a ranged class.. not a melee class..

#35500000264 03/19/2006 10:33:49 Re: Assassin and MKT worthless for pvp

xBLINDSIDEx wrote:
and if you're not a hyperjumper, you pretty much have one shot to get a move in before you're found out... but then, I guess that's why it's a ranged class.. not a melee class..

I agree here but in 90% of the cases the first shot will need to be the evade disable, I can't see any way to activate it and actually mount a single offensive hit let alone kill anyone of my own level? And while MKT is a ranged class, Assassin is very much at close range?

On live Assassin is perhaps the ultimate support class (and wrongly almost completely worthless solo) as it capitalises on multi IL. CR2 reduces assassin damage and removes Multi IL - the likely prospect is for assassin to die as a skill unless disable evasion can be discrete. IMO disable evasion should not bring you out of sneak and should not alert the victim beyond perhaps a message in his system window...likewise once an evade shield is down it should stay down till the player consciously raises it...we should move the ability to repel stealth attacks to the player's awareness rather than let the game engine do all the work for him...it would encourage player end interaction and skill of a more genuine nature than most of what we currently see.

#35500000265 03/19/2006 13:58:06 Re: Assassin and MKT worthless for pvp

I think the idea of the whole spy tree is a support class... Assassin's are really only dangerous when they can get a kill shot in... Personally, I've had no problem using disable evasion, granted some classes are easier than others, example, I was pvping yesterday with it, and was able to get disable evasion, back into stealth and a suplex off before this hacker was able to get the area attack she was trying to cast.. Assassin is more about picking your spots, not going in with guns blazing...

Assassin on live, well, is broken... not broken, but overpowered... all the moves roll pretty much higher than any other abilities, and while it's possible to block them, even fully buffed, probably 8 times out of 10, that bulldog is still going to go through.. in my opinion, Assassin is now, what it should of been to start with... Assassin needs to get the kill, and that's it.. I mean, otherwise it wouldn't be an assassination.. if the person didn't die.. it'd be the professional wrestler tree with all the wwf moves... if ya smell what the blindside is cooking...

#35500000266 03/19/2006 16:23:55 Re: Assassin and MKT worthless for pvp

^ what he said SMILEY

The assassin tree should be for just that: assassinations. However, I do think they should be more of a 1v1 class than a support class.

Assassins are supposed to be sneaky and stealthy, not meant for large combat. The Disable evade move SHOULD increase your chance of getting seen, and that's it. It should NOT automatically take you out of stealth.

Assassin moves should also pretty much never be blocked.

This way, if you were going to assassinate someone say for RP in a building, you can find them, disable evade with them having a CHANCE of spotting you, then go in for the 100% kill move.

Assassins should be the fear of MxO 1v1 while in stealth. When you see an assassin behind you with your evade shield down, you know you're either going to die, or become completely worthless in combat for the next X amount of minutes.

Message Edited by ReguIus on 03-19-200604:25 PM

#35500000268 03/20/2006 04:20:15 Re: Assassin and MKT worthless for pvp

Yeah I agree with Reg entirely, and accept that Assassin on live could be interpreted as overpowered (although purely because of multi IL) witthout the multi IL it falls too far and the disable evade as it stands isn't remotely a compensation. I can see it working now when other classes have no real clue what is going on, but with only the smallest of experiences anyone with a brain will effortlessly be able to deny a spy an attack, as to the success rates a spy is dead without his opening attack the hit rate has to be better than it currently appears on the test server (the opponents aren't even geared to repel sneak attacks yet!)

By all means lift the sneak into the translucent field maybe even root the spy while they take their opponents shield is taken down etc to allow the player an oppertunity to respond....but spys should be about those killer strikes....if the strikes are not too damaging then the sheild has to stay down....atm its a case of move into sneak... take shield down.... move into sneak...... make attack... move into sneak.... take shield down....move into sneak.... make attack and very likely repeat for yet a third time before the kill takes place.

I appreciate your advice xblindsidex btw very much and hear what you say about Suplex but ironically that isnt even on the Assassin tree, nevertheless I will continue to try some varied lo variants to make the spy work I am just dissapointed that Assassin seems to have become the new DataMiner!

#35500000269 03/20/2006 08:00:33 Re: Assassin and MKT worthless for pvp

Tytanya_MxO wrote:
I am just dissapointed that Assassin seems to have become the new DataMiner!

I wonder if this means I'll get banned for using reverse bulldog? I guess it's ok, as long I don't do it while I'm afk..

#35500000271 03/20/2006 10:08:35 Re: Assassin and MKT worthless for pvp

xBLINDSIDEx wrote:

Tytanya_MxO wrote:
I am just dissapointed that Assassin seems to have become the new DataMiner!
I wonder if this means I'll get banned for using reverse bulldog? I guess it's ok, as long I don't do it while I'm afk..

LMAO!

#35500000273 03/21/2006 16:08:10 Re: Assassin and MKT worthless for pvp

on live assassin is far over powered and can easily be used to take down a single opponent one on one with no problem on live.. but most of the over power comes from the multi lock... when assassins are around MA and any other interlock load out is useless and the other aspect is that 2 assassins can get a bunch of CQs by double bulldoging which is a tactic that seems to be used more often then it should.. the other prolem with assassin is pretty much every bulldog you do is a CQ cause its pretty **bleep** hard to beat an assassin at damage... in the test version I was unable to find anything that did that much damage.. but really didnt play with it for too long.. after finding out you need assassin and knife thrower together.. me in live I always just loaded mkt by itself and never used assassin.. assassin is suppose to be a support load out and not a one on one thing.. assassin also needs the element of suprise hence the name assassin and the sneak ability.. assassin is best used for cutting off retreating oponents without them seeing you first and other things like that.

E .· ` ' / ·. F
Your tears fuel me.

#35500000284 03/23/2006 19:42:23 Re: Assassin and MKT worthless for pvp

Am i the only one who misses the good ol' days where you never missed with assassin, this is just sad, a poor excuse for the formidable powers of early assassin. Even without CR2, the rolls were a major failure in my eyes, I recall rolling 1000+ Waaayyyy back in the day, now you seldom outroll a MA with a few exensive pieces of clothing, pathetic. Assassin seldom hits and even if the problem is addressed, it always seems to lack the results we all hope for. Not only do about 40-50% of attacks hit, but you are practically worthless in pvp, at least now you can do something, yet MAs are annoyed because they seem to find it unfair they dont hit higher than assassins, yet they seem to be even stronger now. All they do is watch themselves attack, yet assassin now needs to get far away, enter sneak, manage to get in range without detection, pray they find a person without a shield up, outroll them, (which seldom happens) hit, then manage to escape without the still overkill gunman seeing you. At least if they never missed like back in the day, we could effectively hurt someone before we are ganked. Though for now, it seems rather useless, and by the time it is to our liking, im sure a large amount will have left the game, i try to be patient with these matters but i have raised 2 characters on the assassin tree, first being amazing, my current one sub-par due to the rolls being loweredd, but i highly doubt i will continue much more than a week for this. They are USELESS in pvp, unless you have someone hiding afk as they heal from a real fighter attacking them it seems assassins can say goodbye to the respect and fear they demanded.

#35500000285 03/24/2006 09:48:40 Re: Assassin and MKT worthless for pvp

Iono. Assassin is nerfed, but i'm still pwning 1v1 as assassin/shadow. Havnt used it in a pvp setting yet though.

#35500000286 03/24/2006 20:47:09 Re: Assassin and MKT worthless for pvp

Montoia wrote:
Iono. Assassin is nerfed, but i'm still pwning 1v1 as assassin/shadow. Havnt used it in a pvp setting yet though.

She pretty much pwn me last night while I was loaded as a SMG specialist/duelist. I couldn't get my shots off quick enough and get the shield back up quick before she landed another attack. So assassin is not a worthless class. Get enough assassins going after a flock of MA or Guns, the assassins are going to win, and do it very quickly. The problem is actually getting enough people with assassin onto the test server at the same time. So I'm fairly sure by tuesday afternoon in pvp, all you guys will be loving it, cause you'll all be owning the rest of us. As far as hacker goes, that might be a problem for the assassin, haven't played around much with it.

#35500000294 03/25/2006 16:00:01 Re: Assassin and MKT worthless for pvp

I really enjoy the new combat but there are a couple complainents I have.

The spy tree was fine the way it was, now its nearly impossible to get any bulldogs or punts. Please but the spy tree back the way it was. Shadow does not need any spy abilties.

The only tree that needed balancing was nerfing the Hackers, why is it whenever a tree is balanced the devs have to nerf another tree that didnt need to be nerfed.

I love assassin and today in pvp I couldn't hit anyone nor could i break shields that bites. Not only that but they can hit you very easily.

My other complaint is why is there so many assassin masks on qa?

Please fix assassin

Thanks for the Memories MXO!

#35500000295 03/25/2006 18:01:38 Re: Assassin and MKT worthless for pvp

The spy tree has got a very raw deal, unquestionably the worse hit of CR2 and the weakest of all the offensive trees. There are ways i understand to get an 'adequet' effectiveness by use of multiple branches but Assassin and MKT by themselves have been seriously over nerfed. No good asking for them to revert to the orignal tree either, the loss of Multi IL devastates assassin all by itself. Virtually anything kicks you out of sneak, consumes enormous is or just plain misses too often, it may fool a few ppl to begin with but without serious changes the spy tree is pretty much dead SMILEY

#35500000396 03/31/2006 03:11 Re: Assassin and MKT worthless for pvp

I am prepared to eat my words and apologise for the original posting, it is far from useless I agree.

The initial problem arose from trying to use the tree in the same manner as worked on the old system, essentially mkt WAS an awesome ranged tree and Assassin was a strike and get out tree, you didn't want to remain in IL for either .......once I realised/was told we could hold our own in IL my appreciation changed markedly.... It is actually very good and stands up well against other trees.

For the future I remain dubious about the ability to 'disable evade', it seems ok for now but once players get street smart there seem a lot of options to deny it working. Equally I feel the arragement of the abilities forces the spy into taking multiple sub branches - taking any single branch of the spy would seem to leave you lacking imo so the need is the stradle the lower branches to get the right balance, it is therefore more difficult to generate hybrid builds outside the spy tree. Overall the biggest loss ability to solo at places like mara in a realistic manner, the old days of the quick kill would seem to be gone....though I havent completely given up trying just yet...

Overall spy is Very good and perhaps more fun than before as we can now stay in IL and do our own thing.