About Viral Acc Penalty in IL?

#34900007169 03/21/2006 18:22:53 About Viral Acc Penalty in IL?

I was wondering about something with the new changes to Viral Acc in IL comming soon:

Are Viral attacks still considered specials, as in: when a Hacker uses a Viral attack does it still create a zero-sum situation in IL?

#34900007421 03/23/2006 10:54:08 Re: About Viral Acc Penalty in IL?

from my understanding, yes, it is still a zero sum situation, but the Viral Acc changes are to make it more difficult to use Viral attacks in IL. This makes it so that a Hacker is less likely to succeed in IL, and only IL, so that it doesn't overpower other classes. I understand the reasoning behind it because some viral attacks can be spammed in IL, making do that an MA is unable to attack at all. It became a balancing issue because MAs are interlock dependant, while Hackers are not.

I've seen a hacker spam logic blast and barrage, then use stun, then a silver bullet, wash, rinse and repeat there way to victory.

I understand that people are going to complain about how this is nerfing hacker, but it only goes to demonstrate that Hackers are supposed to be dominant outside of IL, not inside as well. That is why hackers have an increased base contested roll than other IL dependant trees.

#34900007432 03/23/2006 12:50:52 Re: About Viral Acc Penalty in IL?

Yes, Viral Attacks in interlock are considered special moves, creating a zero-sum situation if they hit. If they don't hit, and the other person used a normal attack, the normal attack can still go through.

And the silver bullet animation was for Logic Blast 3.0 and Logic Barrage 3.0, and has been fixed. SMILEY

#34900007478 03/23/2006 15:45:00 Re: About Viral Acc Penalty in IL?

Penalty is still not enough. Im still getting hacked to death in interlock with duelist loaded and 30 focus. Ma's are fine but getting into interlock with a hacker and im as good as dead.

#34900007800 03/24/2006 23:37:49 Re: About Viral Acc Penalty in IL?

Renesis13B wrote:
Penalty is still not enough. Im still getting hacked to death in interlock with duelist loaded and 30 focus. Ma's are fine but getting into interlock with a hacker and im as good as dead.

Well it's simple: a class that has no/few Interlock specials will get Hacked to death as they can't put up any specials to counter the Ballista/Howitzer that is spamming them.

So a Hacker is sort of inbetween the Interlock specialists and the outside-IL classes. Is this their intended spot for their power in IL?

#34900007808 03/25/2006 03:50:11 Re: About Viral Acc Penalty in IL?

Well HCFrog said that the Update was supposed to give hackers a little more strength in interlock, but I don't think they needed any strengthening at all imho. In Live, a hacker, once they debuff an assailant, can very well survive in interlock.

And Cal, where doy ou think Duelists don't have interlock specials? Renesis what level are you btw? Do you have another loadout to supplement your duelist tree?

And HCFrog, will you guys please do some internal testing to actually see if hackers while in interlock still need a tweaking?

#34900007822 03/25/2006 06:53:07 Re: About Viral Acc Penalty in IL?

Hackers really should be all but worthless in IL.

#34900007824 03/25/2006 06:56:37 Re: About Viral Acc Penalty in IL?

ReguIus wrote:
Hackers really should be all but worthless in IL.

What the Matriculated one said. They should be cannon fodder in Interlock. Hackers are created to be powerful (in a support type way) outside of Interlock, moving the imbalance from out of Interlock to Interlock is just stupid...

#34900007870 03/25/2006 17:17:11 Re: About Viral Acc Penalty in IL?

Im a level 50 Duelist (Cant be a duelist without being level 50) and there are several interlock attacks I use and I get outrolled about 75% of the time in interlock for massive damage. Hackers should fear interlock but now they strive in it. I get pulled into interlock by hackers all the time...it should be the other way around. I have some smg and rifles loaded for accuracy and better ranged abilities.

Message Edited by Renesis13B on 03-25-200608:22 PM

#34900007882 03/25/2006 21:15:36 Re: About Viral Acc Penalty in IL?

this issue has been adressed and dealt with...so they said .... but I found out that like u said 75% of the time a hacker outrolls me with their massive Viral attacks and I will still end up dead as a grandmaster against a ballista in interlock

#34900007884 03/25/2006 21:22:36 Re: About Viral Acc Penalty in IL?

Update 15 was the last patch so it hasnt been dealt with yet. They did make changes but it wasnt enough. I hope they make changes before it goes live but I havent heard anything.

#34900008255 04/13/2006 14:26:24 Re: About Viral Acc Penalty in IL?

Frog and devs,

I found that in QA, hackers are actually weak in interlock. The problem is that folks dont have their stats and clothing aligned to benefit their defenses.

The key word is defenses. With CR 2.0, every class has a weakness against the other classes. What this means is that more of you offensive-oriented folks, are extremely weak against hackers because you dont orient your defenses versus viral attacks... like viral resistance or defense...

Ergo, Hackers are very weak against ballistics and melee folks. Its very true...

The crying and complaining that is taking place has to do with folks not properly aligning their characters and thus getting pwned.

A very good MA whipped my butt badly... In fact, I only got off 2 attacks because he powered me down, stunned me, powered me down again, stunned me and destroyed me.

What folks are NOT saying in this discussion is the use of Tac Boosts and other buffs to help their cause.

Notice they dont complain when their hackers are using strategies similar to mine.

KTs I destroy and interlock (they are as weak as I am in interlock).

MAs I run from... Ballistics guys I dont fart around with

I usually attack by surprise.... thats why I normally gain initatives and withdraw....

Folks this is the dodge and feint combat tactics that helps hackers survive.... We are not gonna sit in front of you and let you hit us.

So buff yourself up, reorganize your stats, learn about your new abilities, and grab some skillz.

Let the real bugfinders report the real bugs and leave the whining with your RSI, eh?

* One other thing, most hackers are juiced when you meet them (tac boosts and upgrades)* It would be stupid not to since we have been nerfed.

SMILEY

Message Edited by Tstrike on 04-13-2006 03:27 PM

Message Edited by Tstrike on 04-13-2006 03:28 PM

#34900008259 04/13/2006 14:49:55 Re: About Viral Acc Penalty in IL?

Viral defense does nothing when both players use specials and since hackers can use specials back to back it makes it very difficult to win rolls especially if they are buffed with Upgrade Attacks. 20 secs of Upgrade Attacks in interlock is 5 rounds that they will win almost everytime. I cant get my ballistic/melee accuracy no where near 240 to defend that in interlock. Why is it that no other tree can use specials back to back but hackers can?

#34900008262 04/13/2006 21:00:32 Re: About Viral Acc Penalty in IL?

A very good MA whipped my butt badly... In fact, I only got off 2
attacks because he powered me down, stunned me, powered me down again,
stunned me and destroyed me.

His specials PWNED me because his initative was far better than mine

I tried blocking but he shredded me like cheese....

Go back to what I said and consider carefully, there is stil a lot of folks learning CR 2.0

#34900008263 04/13/2006 22:49:39 Re: About Viral Acc Penalty in IL?

Meh...Renesis, you still crying about hacker? I gotta come to Vector more often just to kill you a few times as hacker....you are so annoying.....you even use any viral resistance clothes or just counting your accuracy will save you the day or what? Looking at your comments, I'd say your build overall....blows.

#34900008264 04/14/2006 02:42:33 Re: About Viral Acc Penalty in IL?

That's not the point mate, back under the old combat system I was
kicking the crap out of level 50 hackers in interlock at level 40!
Nothing should have changed! You shouldn't need a good build or a bad
build as an MA against a hacker, they should just. Die.

#34900008265 04/14/2006 06:05:45 Re: About Viral Acc Penalty in IL?

Come on over ill be happy to show you how much my build blows. I have twice the viral resistance than I do any other resistance. I have 141 viral deflection which doesnt help me in interlock against hackers. What you hackers dont understand is a hacker can roll specials back to back in interlock when no other class can. This makes it zero sum combat so accuracy and initiative IS EVERYTHING. Resistance obviously helps in that situation but if I cant land any attacks it just prolongs my death.

Kemnebi wrote:

Meh...Renesis, you still crying about hacker? I gotta come to Vector more often just to kill you a few times as hacker....you are so annoying.....you even use any viral resistance clothes or just counting your accuracy will save you the day or what? Looking at your comments, I'd say your build overall....blows.

#34900008268 04/14/2006 10:54:48 Re: About Viral Acc Penalty in IL?

Bull....

MAs pwn us very well.... Your stats are screwy and your clothes are probably in the same state.

I strongly suggest you lookup the various guides that guys I was in QA with wrote. We analyzed and reanalyzed every aspect of combat... Yes there are a couple of bugs... But what majority of folks are whining about is this:

* Waaaaaa a hacker pwned me interlock!* :robotwink: I lost my win button.....

Yup.....

The reality is :

*Dang I didnt read the guide on how to readjust my stats despite to the two stats resets the devs gave me*

:robotsurprised:

FOLKS these are the same folks that begged for the DEVS to do something about the SPY tree and how it had to be fixed to be uber....

The devs busted their collective butts with a lot of us on Q/A ....

And now the moaning and groaning.... :robottongue:

#34900008273 04/14/2006 11:21:53 Re: About Viral Acc Penalty in IL?

Tell me wise one..how am i suppose to prevent hackers being able to roll specials back to back in interlock with my stats and influences? Funny how all of you keep ignoring that question.

#34900008280 04/14/2006 16:19:22 Re: About Viral Acc Penalty in IL?

Perhaps this will explain it

Special vs Special - winner is determined by the higher of the two total rolls (higher Acc better)

Special vs Normal - winner is determined by the Special's Acc vs your Defense (Higher Defense is better)

Or just have so much Viral Resistance his attacks do smaller amounts of damage giving you more time to hit him with stuns and powerless states.

Renesis13B wrote:
Tell me wise one..how am i suppose to prevent hackers being able to roll specials back to back in interlock with my stats and influences? Funny how all of you keep ignoring that question.

Message Edited by NoRepro on 04-14-2006 05:21 PM

#34900008281 04/14/2006 16:33:36 Re: About Viral Acc Penalty in IL?

I understand that:smileytongue:. Im talking about the hacker interlock ability timers. Hackers can queue back to back and other trees cant

#34900008283 04/14/2006 18:01:54 Re: About Viral Acc Penalty in IL?

I know what you mean... and I've had NPC hackers do it to me too.

As a hacker, against NPCs, I make careful use of it.

NoRepro, when you select a hacker special, and the number is flashing, the instant it turns to steady red... you hit the hotbar for your next special. Usually, this has the effect of your first special hitting, then your second special follows it. If you use specials with a small enough reuse timer, you can keep repeating this cycle, and your opponent appears to never stand a chance.

#34900008284 04/14/2006 18:13:03 Re: About Viral Acc Penalty in IL?

You explained it perfectly.

#34900008286 04/15/2006 02:25:31 Re: About Viral Acc Penalty in IL?

Other trees can do that too. not everything is on the same timer.

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#34900008290 04/15/2006 07:55:25 Re: About Viral Acc Penalty in IL?

Exactly... the trick to hacker and the appearance of chaining abilities is about learning your timers.... Like I said earlier folks are whining (we predicted this in QA) because they are not taking the time to reexamine their characters and abilities...

NoPro explained it PERFECTLY.