PVP AND YOU...(or, pvp and me)....(or, what's the problem shmo')

#12800000209 09/17/2005 23:03:13 PVP AND YOU...(or, pvp and me)....(or, what's the problem shmo')

I have, in the past few days, gotten to the point were i can actually make a difference in pvp (all be it a small one). so i have a questions that i would like a response to.....

(1).. what's the deal with all the complaining about pvp....i just don't get it; if your not flagged then what's the difference to you. Every war has a front line and the men and women of pvp are ours.. gorilla soldiers, and they all rock, merv, machine, Zion...

so if you don't pvp, and the only people that are affected are the flagged then why do you care..they aren't breaking the rules of the "truce", and they aren't attacking anyone who isn't flagged?

As far as I'm concerned, this is one of the fun things to do inside, again i just reached lvl 45 on Friday and as such still can only find one out of many that i can actually hit with something (IM speaking in hacker)...so i die a lot..(i think i need lessons in buffed clothing choices for pvp but that's another thread)

#12800000210 09/17/2005 23:44:37 Re: PVP AND YOU...(or, pvp and me)....(or, what's the problem shmo')

hey i agree i am in vecter and i like the PvP but sometimes it does get to be a little much but most the time i thinks its fun...

#12800000211 09/18/2005 10:00:12 Re: PVP AND YOU...(or, pvp and me)....(or, what's the problem shmo')

I agree with Fayit. PvP can be fun, and it has it's time and place. However:

That place is not the most popular HLs. Why do all these level 50's have to hang around Mara C, lagging out the whole region? There are plenty of places in Downtown, right by HL's that don't affect everybody else.

That time is not all the time. Especially not in conjunction with 1. You're making other people's lives difficult and unpleasant. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to do a mission in Mara C (especially when you're escorting lower level crew members around to help them out) with a whole bunch of PvP going on? No, you wouldn't... because you're too busy thinking about yourselves and your PvP.

The fun only starts with lvl 45+. Know why? Because many level 50's (and my apologies, in advance, to those level 50's to whom this does not apply) seem to think it's funny to load up Howitzer and drop Code Nuke on a group of lower levels having a bit of a group war. And believe it or not, even the people you "save" with that won't thank you. You're spoiling their fun too by taking away their fight.

Basically... PvP has the potential (like so much in this game) to be great. And like most things, it is spoiled for everyone by a few 10-year-old (regardless of real age) brats.

Show a little consideration please. It really isn't that hard.

#12800000212 09/19/2005 02:38:49 Re: PVP AND YOU...(or, pvp and me)....(or, what's the problem shmo')

I will point out that you don't have to go to mara. There are other neighbourhoods that are in fact safer in richland.

#12800000213 09/19/2005 03:20:09 Re: PVP AND YOU...(or, pvp and me)....(or, what's the problem shmo')

Echosnare wrote:
I will point out that you don't have to go to mara. There are other neighbourhoods that are in fact safer in richland.

You know, guys, there were areas specifically created for this kind of stuff. They were called CONSTRUCTS. Remember, way back in beta, when people were crying and wailing for better PvP options? "/Duel is lame! Give us real PvP!!!" Well, the devs came up with a solution: The Archive, a massive battleground based on the Machine City, Zero One, before humanity scorched the sky. Factions would buy an archive book, jack in at an org-specific location, then meet within the city for a little PvP throwdown. The idea was met with overwhelming approval; in fact, people seemed to love it so much that the devs added more special PvP constructs, and even instituted level caps and org safezones, in order to eliminate the one big problem plaguing the PvP concept - ganking of lower-level players. Pretty sweet, I'd say, and a worthy effort on the devs' part to meet the demands of the players at that time. So, what have we done since then? All but forgotten they even exist and taken our chestbeating and ego-boosting to the streets of the Mega City, mainly near high-traffic areas like Mara Central, causing the same kind of lag we'll go to great lengths to complain about on the forums when it occurs in other areas.

Let's forget for a moment that PvP, as it stands, serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever other than to gain CQ points, which, at the moment, mean nothing at all. Let's also forget that in-game PvP on a non-hostile world was supposed to fall in place during times when the storyline called for it...you know, times when it would actually make sense to wage battle against organizations you were supposed to be under a truce with, but, as it has turned out, PvP seems to be constantly available now in the same non-hostile world. Yeah...so that whole "go to a non-hostile server" excuse doesn't apply anymore. Sorry, guys...time to find a new rebuttal.

And, when I say "chestbeating and ego-boosting", I'm talking about these factions that don't PvP because it would be an interesting roleplaying element to explore, but instead PvP because one faction was talking smack against another, and instead of talking it out like intelligent, mature people, they decide to hacker-gank each other into oblivion.

No, let's instead focus on the suggestion that if one absolutely MUST PvP in-world, there are far better places to do it. Debir Court comes to mind, which isn't far from Mara Central, but far enough to not lag the hardline to be damned. There are also countless parks throughout Richland; there's the baseball diamond in Kaede, large rooftops on various buildings throughout the Mega City...I think you're getting the picture here. All of these places have large, open spaces suitable for PvP action and don't fall so close to hardlines that anyone wanting to conduct any kind of business there will either be: 1. ganked, should they be unfortunate enough to have a flag up, or 2. lagged so badly that they either can't move or even crash.

Some factions have made concerted efforts to take PvP back to the constructs...and that's good. At least some people out there remember what those places were made for. But the rest of these PvP-happy players need to get on that bandwagon and stop lagging up Mara and other high-traffic areas. And I know there will be people saying, "But you gotta pay to go in there, and if you die, you get sent out of the construct!" Well, folks, I'd counter that with the facts that the books, while not cheap, are not nearly costly enough to warrant THAT much complaint (and besides, if you want to PvP THAT badly, wouldn't it be worth the cost?). And, if you're worried about dying, maybe it would be wise to take someone from your faction that has rez ability and can save you the frustration of having to go back to the archivist.

And, devs, please...I know you're busy with making new emotes and everything, but it's time to make PvP relevent to the world of the Matrix again, and it's also time to turn it off in non-hostile worlds. Once in a while is fine, to help ease the bored minds of people tired of missioning, farming, and Pandora's Box-ing, but leaving it on all the time makes that world HOSTILE. If you're gonna have designations for these worlds, at least hold to them.

Message Edited by SirTemplar on 09-19-2005 06:29 AM

#12800000214 09/19/2005 03:00:20 Re: PVP AND YOU...(or, pvp and me)....(or, what's the problem shmo')

Why do all these level 50's have to hang around Mara C, lagging out the whole region?

Like any predator, they hunt, kill, and frequent, where the prey is plentiful :p

It is after all only natural, blame Darwin, as for the lag...forget it I'm done being Captain Obvious.

#12800000215 09/19/2005 03:26:19 Re: PVP AND YOU...(or, pvp and me)....(or, what's the problem shmo')

Well, adonai, you've just proved my point... it is the fact that people are inconsiderate gits who care nothing for anyone else that is the cause of the problem. "They stay where the prey is plentiful" is only an argument if they're fighting (let's be honest here) ganking people far lower level than them.

The level 50's COULD go anywhere. They CHOOSE to go to Mara C, absolutely proving the fact that either they're evil gankers (if they're beating up lower level chars who're trying to have a little fun, thereby removing any chance of lower levels HAVING decent PvP) or they're inconsiderate bumpkins (just making everyone elses lives difficult either through ignorance or lack of consideration for others).

And while Echosnare is right, you CAN start anywhere, you have very little control over where the mission takes you. In a series of 4 missions with my faction I have gone from Tabor (our habitual hangout) down through Mara and all the way into Eschean Projects.

Basically, what it comes down to is that there are two groups: One group doing missions with lower level characters who CAN only do it in Richland and one group PvPing in Richland who COULD be anywhere. It's pretty obvious where the problem lies...

P.S. Congrats to SirTemplar for a beautiful argument (and just beating me to it :smileytongue: )

Message Edited by ZenShin on 09-19-2005 04:29 AM

#12800000216 09/19/2005 04:09:11 Re: PVP AND YOU...(or, pvp and me)....(or, what's the problem shmo')

We've tried to take it other places, downtown is a nogo for pvp at the mo, since you lag to hell just by killing a mob.. so we tried international, was allrite.. but people just weren't interested. Mara c is the main hardline, its grown to become the hardline for pvp, someone wants pvp.. they go to mara c! My opinion, you dont like all the pvp thats goin on .. YOU go somewhere else.. dont see why the pvpers (which majority of the time is over half the population of the hardline) should go elsewhere.. imo :smileyhappy:

#12800000217 09/19/2005 04:13:55 Re: PVP AND YOU...(or, pvp and me)....(or, what's the problem shmo')

I certainly haven't proven your point, with my commentary, and neither have you.

You offer a perspective on why people PVP, and unfortunately its a one dimensional and negative arguement.

That of course doesnt mean its completely wrong, but without going into the myraid of other reasons why anyone would PVP, and more over why that area, lets just say players rationalize their subscriptions in a wide variety of behaviours.

Ultimately the constructs solely for PVP was unfortunately a great concept for the casual gamer, but not in anyway true to the source material, you didn't see Neo and the Gang, going to a special place to get their collective dance off/on.

The Matrix, and its immerisive violent conflict, was on the streets of the Mega City (hate that name so Judge D.), and to remove it from this origin would be to strip to much away of what made the films and associated storylines compelling.

Unfortunately PVP and its associated drama comes back to one evil root; lack of compelling alternative content.

Anyway in my time, I danced, I ganked, I sat on a bench in Mara C, and none of those activities and a thousand more, drive me to jack into the Matrix, and personally I find that a very sorry state of affairs.

But different strokes for different folks, and if they have fun ganking some lowbie, take a moment to consider that person, renews there sub, every month, and finds joy in that activity.

If you take that away, you could be potentially taking the only reason they renew, and if you would mandate some soft alternative, what would be the cost to MXO?

In the end, PVP for the most part is an entirely elective affair, if you choose that flag, if you choose that construct, if you choose that hostile server, get used to dying and dealing death.

The PVP foundation the game supports, keeps at least 33% of the population based on server (probably much higher based on active daily pops), renewing every month, and if development extended its functionality to objective based pvp, and player faction sponsered missions, then not only would it be compelling, it would pull a far great audience, than those that are currently waiting, extremely patiently, for the next big thing from MXO.

Course these idea's have been knocking around for over a year, I doubt we will see them implemented anytime soon, but in the end, theres always belief, hope, and mindless ganking that keeps us all occupied, in some form or another.

"p

Message Edited by adonai on 09-19-2005 05:15 AM

#12800000218 09/19/2005 04:57:52 Re: PVP AND YOU...(or, pvp and me)....(or, what's the problem shmo')

Sphairo87: That is exactly the kind of short-sighted, inconsiderate attitude I was referring to. When you're running missions with low-level chars to give them a bit of a boost, taking them into Downtown, International or Westview is both suicide (for them) and stupid (for me). I'm not stupid, so I run my missions in Richland. PvP, however, can happen anywhere...

adonai: That is a much better explanation than the previous post :smileytongue: , and you've made some really good points that I hadn't considered before. PvP is necessary for the game, and I'll agree that lots of people play only to PvP (so we shouldn't take it away from them).

However, you make the suggestion that it's OK for a low-level character to be killed by a high-level one. Here, we're going to violently disagree. The low-level character also pays his monthly subscriptions, just like your high-level PvPer. He has the right to play and enjoy his game free and unmolested. Maybe he didn't know any better when he picked a hostile server and now that he's level 16-odd (I think that's when the compulsory PvP kicks in, dunno, I don't play on hostile) he doesn't really want to start all over again. Why should he be made to suffer over and over again, for the amusement of, frankly, juvenile (possibly perverted) minds (for that is the ONLY kind of mind that'll enjoy that kind of activity). It's like pulling the wings off a butterfly, or the legs off an ant... except that you're doing it to another human being. How is it any better to gank low-level characters than to forbid such ganking?

What you're also failing to take into account (I suppose you're level 50) is that the lower-level characters want to have fun too. They are already excluded from PB (because min level is 35-odd). They're already excluded from the original player events (because they just got dead). All they had, is the possibility of PvP to break the tedium of missions. And now, you want to take that away as well?

I'm not trying to get PvP banned, or anything. I'm just asking that people grow up a little. If I want to set up a little faction war (or anything else, for that matter), I should be able to do so without interference. Everybody whined about immature people spamming chat during events. That's what the inconsiderate PvPers are doing elsewhere. They're spamming the HL (in the low-level areas, I might add). They jump into PvP where they're not wanted (effectively taking away the chance for low-level characters to do PvP with other low-level characters). They interfere with player events (because it's impossible to have signifcant group combat without PvP) and if level 50's keep jumping into a low-level event it just spoils it for everyone... but I guess that's why they do it. Back to the immature, selfish mental mode.

All I ask is that people show a little more consideration for other players who AREN'T little clones of you. Who are different. Who role-play (and no, we're not carebears). Who have other aims than getting ganked on. Is that so very hard to do?

#12800000219 09/19/2005 05:57:03 Re: PVP AND YOU...(or, pvp and me)....(or, what's the problem shmo')

Level up somewhere safe and shut up about pvp, it's the core of the game, if your on a non hostile server than you have nothing to complain about, if your on a hostile server than you get what you signed up for.

Mara isn't a rec center, it is pvp central.

The only thing that bothers me is the lack of respect for a 1 on 1 fight, every time i've been in a duel since the merge someone(or more) jumps in. I had a guy 9 lvl's higher than me refuse a 1 on 1 becuase he couldn't have his knifer and hacker friends jump in. So ever time I died trying to battle and getting zerged by 10+ people he would /puke on me and talk trash. Funny really, I'll catch him alone at some point.

#12800000220 09/19/2005 06:16:14 Re: PVP AND YOU...(or, pvp and me)....(or, what's the problem shmo')

Go read the thread and see what the problems are. Save your comments until you actually have something useful to add. If you actually read it, you'd see that I'm not complaining about PvP at all... I'm just complaining about how people go about it... just the same as you.

#12800000221 09/19/2005 06:35:05 Re: PVP AND YOU...(or, pvp and me)....(or, what's the problem shmo')

Mara C has too much momentum going for it. PVP seems like it will
always be stuck there...trust me, we have tried to move it. You
can never tell everyone to take it to another HL... you can tell the
small amount of people in Mara to move, but then in 5 minutes more
people will log in and head to Mara and flag, and the other people will
return to Mara to fight them. Posting on the forums doesnt help
as there is a large percentage of players who dont even read
them. Plus you know how kiddies are, if you tell them to move
pvp...you can bet they wont just because someone told them to.

#12800000222 09/19/2005 07:22:19 Re: PVP AND YOU...(or, pvp and me)....(or, what's the problem shmo')

Lol, yeah Smike_. That's true. I wonder if we could persuade SOE to create an "Adults Only" server so that we don't have to deal with childish players, don't have to worry about getting banned for swearing (even though far worse things apparently go on <shudders at the memory of /teabag> SMILEY

, and can get on and play. Of course... SOE will never go for it :smileymad:

Message Edited by ZenShin on 09-19-2005 08:23 AM

#12800000226 09/20/2005 10:37:22 Re: PVP AND YOU...(or, pvp and me)....(or, what's the problem shmo')

Ok I think warwraith and Nano have more or less stated in more articulate terms what I was saying.

Zenshin - I was going to add to my first statement RPing but didn't because I have several friends who RPed on hostile servers and reached 50 long ago. Not surprisingly I'm on Vector. I chose enumerator originally for the RP aspect of that I could die at any point. I just fail to see how anyone could be level 30 after 360 hours play. Even if you dedicated one day a week of play to level with friends you could still RP the rest of the time and enjoy the benefits of being higher (better disguises etc) - I levelled with faction members and it wasn't about the levelling it was a social activity.

What I'm trying to say is that you can RP anywhere - PVP is limited to where people are known to gather. Trying to get us to move is inconsiderate. Besides - theres not much at mara to RP about unless you count the church which you'll barely find people in. Plus if you are Roleplaying you should be expecting attacks at any moment. Being able to respond to them and work a story is what lept my friends going.

Edit to reeply to templar

Again you are still living in cloud cookoo land. How can you expect a large number of people to stop what they enjoy in a certain place for the benefit of a minority. You can phrase it as politely as you like but people wont listen - believe me I tried on input to make pvp less random and get some large scale battles going (the attempt failed because the people who were supposed to be contacting other orgs didn't so about 50 zion showed up and twiddled their thumbs).

Message Edited by Echosnare on 09-20-2005 11:48 AM

#12800000227 09/20/2005 11:21:26 Re: PVP AND YOU...(or, pvp and me)....(or, what's the problem shmo')

I am still a little confused.....

I just can't understand what the problem is. I mean, i fully respect the opinions of those who don't pvp, but I don't understand why it's an issue..(I've read most of the posts up to this point; several of them are so long and repetitive I couldn't finish them without dozing off every few lines)

If you are on a hostile server ( I am not, and so i can only assume), it must be a pain in the behind to interact in a "RP" kind of way because even Neo and Smith had quite conversations... yes; always followed by excessive violence and mayhem, but there was still a level of interaction there. (i think we are in dire need of witty retorts and plot thickening banter).. I would think that being on a hostile server would force a lvl of community that is needed to survive in a hostile environment..again I'm not on a hostile server so this is an assumption, but i digress...

The only world i know is Recursion, and there for I can only speak, without assumption to what i know.. PVP has never bothered me; when i was a "wee lad" I didn't PVP because doing so would have been futile. I did what every new "red pill" did, i ran missions and enjoyed the life of simple eloquence, killing low lvl mobs and running the the invincable higher lvl players..

PVP was a show, wether i was chatting between missions or buying abilities from those able to craft them. I liked the pvp, very "Roman Games". Lag, you say..um..yeah i had my fair share, and as much of a pain as it was at the time, it didn't ruin my game (it may ruin yours, everyone deals with this at differant levels, some bad some realy bad, and i feel for those that have it realy bad).

Now I'm a big boy, heading for lvl 47, and PVP is just getting fun.. it's a chance for people to show thier ability in a strategic fight to the death. I still die constantly, I can still can barely touch anyone out there who is flagged, and I still enjoy it

Yes this is too long, but I just don't see the problem and i realy didn't want this to become a b*tch fest for all you stuborn people. i realy just wanted to hear decisive, clear points on the issue so i could understand everyones side.

( maybe i should keep my posts to the ability forums were no-one goes.... but then I'd never gat an answer either way...)

#12800000228 09/21/2005 03:33:09 Re: PVP AND YOU...(or, pvp and me)....(or, what's the problem shmo')

Nano, warwraith and Echosnare make good points. Particularly the one about how it's unfair to tell them to move at the same time as shooting them down for telling us to move. They don't see why there's an issue and, frankly, they might, MIGHT, be right. They do raise some good points and here's my rebuttal:

Why I have a problem with Mara being PvP-Central:

I often run missions with my crew (much lower level than me) to help them out. Sometimes those missions take me into Mara (so unless you think it's fair that I abort any mission that sends me to Mara, I HAVE to go there). It's not like I can just avoid the area (although I try as far as possible).

I'm running a 64-bit 4Ghz processor, 1Gb RAM, 256Mb 3D graphics card and 8Mb broadband (although it only runs at 6Mb :smileymad: ), and I still lag out to almost unplayable levels going to Mara. I've often had people crash out of the game (and thus the mission) by having to go to Mara, and that just isn't right.

There are plenty of other places where PvP can happen (sure, it'll be a little work to move it, but how is it any more fair for us to have the above problems).

Why I have a problem with PvP in general:

I'd also like to PvP occacsionally. I'll certainly agree with you that it's fun. However, there are a few inconsiderate level 50 people that'll gank ANYONE. That behaviour effectively means that people below aorund level 40 have enormous trouble trying to PvP. Sure, there are a few, but the rest of us gave up long ago.

A nice solution to that would be if the PvPers themselves controlled this. If anyone sees a level 50 constantly ganking on lower level characters, take him out a few times and let him see how he likes it. Of course... that's probably wishful thinking. I don't think the PvP community cares about anyone else enough to do it (of course, I'd LOVE you to prove me wrong, cause then I can PvP with groups at my level too).

So many things are already limited in level (PB, live events while they existed, most player events like MA tourneys etc.) that it really grates to have this taken away from me as well.

Why I am level 30 after 360 hours:

Believe it or not, there are more things to do in the Matrix than mission. There's people to meet, recruiting to do, code-bits and red frags to farm etc. I resent the implication that my game-play is "sub-standard" just because I do others things as well. If you want to only grind missions and then beat up people lower than you, go play single player games and stop being such a bully.

Given the above, I'v probably only spent around 120 hours actually trying to level. At 10 minutes a mission (incl. decomp, travel etc.) that gives me 720 missions. Even on Hard, it takes me around 25 missions to level. 720 missions / 25 missions per level = 28.8 levels, so I'm actually exactly where I should be.

Don't just assume that because I do other things I am inferior... or I'll start exploring the boundaries of my vocabulary on you :smileytongue: . And that would be a death worse than fate...

So that's a summary of my issues. Please respond (in a civil fashion), because I'd really like to sort this out. At the moment, the servers are split, fractured and divided (and that's in terms of the players, not the orgs), and we could do so much more it we worked together (at least, outside of the game).

#12800000235 09/19/2005 07:15:28 Re: PVP AND YOU...(or, pvp and me)....(or, what's the problem shmo')

ZenShin wrote:

I agree with Fayit. PvP can be fun, and it has it's time and place. However:

That place is not the most popular HLs. Why do all these level 50's have to hang around Mara C, lagging out the whole region? There are plenty of places in Downtown, right by HL's that don't affect everybody else.

That time is not all the time. Especially not in conjunction with 1. You're making other people's lives difficult and unpleasant. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to do a mission in Mara C (especially when you're escorting lower level crew members around to help them out) with a whole bunch of PvP going on? No, you wouldn't... because you're too busy thinking about yourselves and your PvP.

The fun only starts with lvl 45+. Know why? Because many level 50's (and my apologies, in advance, to those level 50's to whom this does not apply) seem to think it's funny to load up Howitzer and drop Code Nuke on a group of lower levels having a bit of a group war. And believe it or not, even the people you "save" with that won't thank you. You're spoiling their fun too by taking away their fight.

1) PvP brakes out at Mara C because it's the most populated HL, why would you go to a HL that no one is at and hope that someone just happens to stop by with their flag turned on? If you are a RPer RP like it's real and run your *CENSORED* off when the fighting starts. Would you just stand around in the middle of gun fire telling them to stop in RL?

2) It's not any more or less difficult to run missions in Mara on a non-hostile server when ppl are pvp'n. If your flag is turned off they can't attack you, they can't attack anyone that is being lead by you. They only way it would effect you is that you stop missioning to watch the mayhem, so stop watching and mission.

3) If you want fun group war that doesn't get high levels crashing it go to the archives, that's what they are for. If the archive isn't for you then plan your little group war out and take it to an under used HL. (Some may say this goes against my first point but my first point is for unplanned pvp.)

People who complain about PvP on a non-hostile server need to go play Sims cause this game might not be for you.

#12800000242 09/21/2005 04:14:05 Re: PVP AND YOU...(or, pvp and me)....(or, what's the problem shmo')

I'll throw in my two pence...

As a level 30, getting ganked by a gang of 50's isn't fun. I've got no problem going one-on-one, that's why I joined FightClub, and a hostile server, but it never is one-on-one, it's more like four-on-one, getting hacked/shot/debuffed etc. Saying that, I have been in several PVPs where I ran into a crew of reds and pvp'd against the closest match while the others just watched. They've even been nice enough to rez me to fight again, or at least tell me to p*ss off lol!

I like the idea of PVP being restricted to certain times though...this is supposed to be an underground war after all.

*CENSORED*

#12800000243 09/21/2005 05:37:28 Re: PVP AND YOU...(or, pvp and me)....(or, what's the problem shmo')

I am levelling a char on syntax at the moment. Put in a few hours and shes now 14 i think. I've had some pvp experience on these servers and I'd fight somone my level only for a level 50 to nuke me. Now aside from this which didn't happen that often I found another hilarious game to play. I call it the pipe game. To begin you turn on pvp, hyper jump and bounce around a bit till you have people folllowing you. Then you get to the pipe up the side of the building and move down to just below the second window. No low level killing for them.

#12800000244 09/21/2005 07:35:43 Re: PVP AND YOU...(or, pvp and me)....(or, what's the problem shmo')

LMAO, Echosnare... That one sounds like it's worth a try! :smileyvery-happy:

#12800000245 09/21/2005 07:53:15 Re: PVP AND YOU...(or, pvp and me)....(or, what's the problem shmo')

At the end of the day you are the most flexible aspect of the matrix and its your attitude and perception that you have most control over (ie within reason you can adjust your RP to fit). On the non-hostile worlds (of which I confess i have limited experience) you have the /duel and /pvp switches via which you can use to tailor your game according to the degree of threat and involvement you want to engage - while I would always support an RP goal over any other (it is an MMORPG when all said and done) in this case I think those arguing against the current system are being overly prescriptive to fellow players and overly restrictive on themselves to the detriment of the potential experience here.

Flex your imaginations accept that in the matrix some redpills will be *CENSORED*hol3s, some will be bitter and twisted by what has occured and be out solely for blind revenge and some will be downright evil..... the matrix is a dangeous place where you should watch your back and run/fight as and when necessary, survival is the key to success - use it in a positive manner!