What is fair in love and PvP?

OK, maybe Im really not interested in learning what is fair in love
(thats a bit off topic) but I want to know what everyone thinks is
'fair' in PvP.



First, my credentials:



1)  I am Zion (somehow I feel I must apologize for that, but I won't)

2)  I am an Arbalest (ditto)

3)  I haven't yet PvPed alot, so I'm not that good at it.



The reason I haven't PvPed alot is because as an Arb, I know that if I
kill someone with stun followed by the usual hacker attacks, often I
will be greeted with claims of "Hackers suck" or "Stun is bogus". 
Well, OK, I can understand how someone might feel that way (its a
balance issue), but my question is:



If it's not fair for a Hacker to use stun in PvP, or if its not fair
for Zionists to use their superior numbers, what types of PvP are fair?



Should an MA only attack an MA?

Should a Doctor be exempt from PvP attacks if he/she is just healing?

If you are fighting an MA, why isn't it 'fair' to roll out of interlock and/or use HJ to avoid it?



I know that there will be a school of thought that will say 'anything
goes' in PvP, and no rules should apply, and while I am partial to that
arguement, I would like to know the other side of the story.



So what are your rules for honorable PvP?

Message Edited by bricxx on 08-16-2005 11:12 PM

You really must decide this for yourself.  You have to figure out what kind of player you want to be because everybody has different opinions and playing styles.  For any action you take or don't take, someone will have something to say about it.  My personal style is kinda like anything goes.  All I ask is, No exploiting, No whining, and don't trashtalk if you didn't do much to bring me down.

First Rule of PvP.. Pvp Doesnt Exist

Second Rule Of PvP never Talk about .........

Just Kidding.. 

These are my Standards. 

TO KILL:

1.  If someone is allready Fighting in PvP  they are fair game Regardless of there Level. 

2.  If I come across a Player of a Faction that my faction is at war with then they die as well. 

3.  If I come across a Hardline and there are  large group of lower levels Dancing Naked... yep you guessed it,  there Target Practice. 

4.  If you are with in 2 lvls of me you are a fair game. 

5.  Dr's are exempt until they heal someone during PvP then they are part of the war and must die too. 

6.  Coders are Excluded from all attacks...( Exception: unless they fall into Rule #2)

7.  Anyone That makes it on to my crybaby list is automaticaly [K-O-S]

8.  Anyone Near My Archivist has to die.. Odds are they are up to no Good.

Not To Kill

1.  anyone who Cons Grey to me.

2.  People that Are Taking time from PvP to Power Level other Members of there Faction. (Exception: Faction wars)

3.  Mission Teams

4.  If I come across a player who is Clearly Not a PvP'er Regaurdless of LvL, I will not attack First.

Obviously I have More Reasons to kill People than to Not Kill someone but thats how a Hostile Server Goes. 

 All Rules Are Subject to Change at any given time with out Notice.

Message Edited by xerovirus on 08-17-2005 01:03 AM

For me personally there are many ways to be honorable in battle:

- Do NOT participate in a gank.

- Do NOT kill someone whose RSI has only just been restored (not revitalized).

- Do NOT attack someone who cons grey.

- Do NOT spam or smacktalk.

- Do NOT attack women or children.

- Do NOT be a sore looser.

- Do NOT be a bad winner.

Have I broken any of these rules?  Yes.  We all have.  Was it done in malice?  Never.  PvP is meant to be fun.  As long as you remember that above everything else, then your honor is maintained.

Message Edited by manicvelocity on 08-17-2005 09:54 AM

Really, I think it's fair not to attack those who are 5 levels lower then you, unless they pose a threat.  For example, if you are a level 50 MA without any VD loaded (bad idea), and a level 33 hacker starts trying to stun you, they're fair game.

If you are the hacker who just got your shield bust by the MA, it's definitely fair to roll out, run, hyperjump away, or whatever.

If a doctor is healing people, then they should be included in PvP.  Why?  negative condition sweeps can ruin a throat slitting throw, or mess up your great blind/staggered combo you may have your opponenet at in interlock.  Having a foe healed while in close combat is very frustrating.

As for teaming up on one player, it is fair if you're trying to overcome a great level gap, or you're aiding someone who's being attacked.  If you attack one guy from clan <PvP> who's standing in a circle of other members of his clan, don't call them Zergs when you're dead in half a second.

on the other hand, it is fun to attack somebody who is 5 lvl higher
than u! sure, your *CENSORED* will get kicked...but, honestly, there is NO
fair PVP. its always that somebody is stronger than you. i`m a cuttroat
with 1100 pts damage atthe time, but thats all i can do! sure i`ll
leave someone with no half-or-more hp, but if i would fight MA - i`m
dead! so donnt think what others will say...unless u attack someone
really weak

There are two things with pvp:



1. Everyone is going to whine no matter what you do, so who cares.

2. PvP is very fun in this game.

Two categories of pvpers....well three I guess



1) Power gamers who copy somebody else's build...because it is cheap
and the most efficient in killing other players.  The two cheap
builds are Knife Thrower and Arbalest.  Knife Thrower uses the
same move to stun you and then uses analyze weakness so they can then
kill you in 2 more throws.  Arbalests stun you and well..I think
we all know about arablests.  Both must be boring to play (I would
assume) as they are so limited in their range of attacks.  But
some people only care about killing you...bottom line.  To me
these people remind me of the campers in a FPS who sit around the whole
game waiting for you to stumble onto them.  Then when they kill
you they somehow think that they "pwned" you.  A truly boring
existence these souls must lead. 



2) Players who actually take the time to create their own builds...even
though they know that Knife Thrower is the most efficient build 1 on
1(meaning a level 50 can kill another level 50 the fastest with knife
thrower) in the
game.  Yes, a strange concept to some people, but without us the
game would be very boring.  Yes I realize that there are only so
many builds possible in this game, but please...  show a little
originality.  PVP should be about having fun...not making sure you
are the "correct build" because if you're not then someone might call
you a noob or you might get killed.



3) Doctors and upgrade masters....



So in reponse to your post...save arbalest for camping the construct bosses.

Message Edited by Smike_ on 08-19-2005 02:29 PM

Smike, have you ever used an Arb in PvP?  If so, you must be aware
of the necessity in that tree to cross it with other branches of
hacker.  You dont get max VT and Max VT by just sticking to the
pure Arb/Bastilla tree.  Also, it isnt wise to max out the
Arb/Bastilla part of the tree (depending on your level), as you can use
that memory that is wasted on things like logic cannon (which takes too
long to be useful in PvP) on loading parts of early parts of the
operative tree (which will help a hacker get a few additional seconds
of life in interlock).



So what does all this mean?  It means that I do use my own, custom
loadouts that I have developed by testing with willing faction members,
NPCs and in PvP.  This also increases the number of attacks in
one's memory. 





Just wanted to clear up that misconception for ya, I do use my own build, which was not copied from anyone.



And finally, you said I should save Arb for camping the construct
bosses.  Well, I do that, and that often gets me involved in
PvP.  But you said:



"So in reponse to your post...save arbalest for camping the construct bosses."



And my earlier post asked what is fair in PvP, so does your quote above
mean that you believe that using Arb in PvP is not fair?  Just
want to make sure I am not misunderstanding you.



Thanks!

I see red i kill.

All is fair in Love, War and PvP.



I have never really been a Hardcore PvP'er, but I try to enjoy the most
of it while it happens. The best moments of PvP I had was at Zero-One
Archive where Zion took over the Merovingian Outpost. We were all
organised, had the right people who knew what they were doing. Nothing
really compared to the PvP that we all witnessed at Mara Central or
Tabor West.



I believe Hackers and Knife Throwers are a pain. They have to be really
skilled to use there loadouts, and the usual combo has to be the
Staggering throw, Throat cutting throw and then finished off by many
other people. I say well done for the organisation of attacks.



I remember a respected member of Recursion saying "IQ or CQ?". I
believe if you cant laugh over a defeat or say "Good Fight" then dont
participate in PvP. What is fair in PvP? Anything is fair, I try not to
gank, but we all fall victim to it, and laugh it off, and we bounce
back.

PvP is never meant to be fair, however, once you flag you are suscptible to multiple attacks from enemies.. you flag, you typed /pvp. So it was you who put yourself out on a line.

Sure hacker vs MA is not fair at all.. but untill they balance it out, thats what VD is for!
My rules in Pvp;

I will only attack someone lvl 45+
If someone is flagged below them, i will not attack, unless attacked first. Alot of the time its not a problem as i walk up to them and they either hyper jump away or scarper, but ONLY if they go to break my shield are they fair game.

I cannot stand spy's or knife throwers full stop, so will attack them without warning.
Gankage happens all the timem we cant escape it, so we must accept our defeat, and reconstruct.
HOWEVER, it is immature lower levels in a faction that trash talk or sit on you, begin dancing on you. (a plain lack of respect) they wind me up to the brim, so they go down on my hitlist.

I have been zion since awakened, but recently turned mero because of zion's numbers. (and as mentioned above immature players) Yes i dug my own grave, but it is a choice i have made, i will accept the consequence's and will not stoop to bitching if (or should i say when) i get ganked.

My main rule is to have fun, thats what its all about

yea sphairo only attack ppl 45+....THEN WHY DID YOU AND DAELIM GANK ME IN MARA C WHEN IM ONLY 38!

I'm pretty sure there were no hostile servers in beta. You could go to the archives to pvp but that was it.

and in that great big lump of text  I disagree. Hostile servers make you pvp a lot more and i have no doubt that the truly dedicated pvpers on vector could wipe the floor with the pvpers on other worlds. You asked a machine who said he rolled 250 - he wasn't the cream. The cream on vector are the people I attack with the knowledge that if I do one thing wrong they will obliterate me.

hehe now makablesdinger is level 42 so WATCH 'YER BACKS! (if non-zion on syntax)

now 50

watch your back if non mero on syntax

peac