Advantages and disadvantages of the several MA disciplines

Heya peeps.



Right now I'm a level 42 Kung-Fu Martial Artist and I'm wondering what
the various advantages and disadvantages of the other two martial arts
disciplines are.



What do I have to know if I want to learn Karate or Aikido? What are the differences between them and Kung-Fu



Thanks for your insights in advance.



>revolt_

Nv 50 GM Karaté

good:

karaté is supposed to do more damage than other Martial arts, in fact, no really...

The stun effect can be great, but in fact, it's only (good enough) -20 tactic , don't know why the foe still attacking me when  stunned by a special move

the sky-high sidekick that lower the ranged & melée physical resistance by 25% (15sec) is perhaps the best special move of the karateka , because it's really usefull in order to deal more damage with the others special move

bad:

Karaté don't have special move that really  can help you to win, like the others MA that always have an automatical powerless (15sec) , and enraged effect , without open needed, that really kill the fight , when karaté need a staggered effect to try to powerless (40% chance)(15sec) with the one and only machinegun kick...

The berzerk attack is useless (giving 200 melee damage (well, fully equiped, i have 497 bonus melée damage, so berzerk give me +3 melee damage bonus!Awesome!.....+200 karaté damage should be wise) and a usefull +25 toughness) cause it's the only special ability that count as an attack in the interlock , you must win the dice to benefit of it ! useless !

The nv 46 special attack ( forgot the name) that need both staggered & off-balance effects, is really hard(impossible?) to use , even if the damage are great...

here is my point of view

Message Edited by Antcrist on 08-26-2005 02:51 PM

Message Edited by Antcrist on 08-26-2005 02:53 PM

In the past i have used aikido and now im using kungfu so i dont know
much about karate, however i have extensive discussions with friends
about all the MA styles, so here's my input....



kungfu has a few nice special moves that need no states to be used ie
machine gun fists, and the infamous misdirect punch - people tend to
complain a lot about this move because if you get lucky u can blind,
powerless and (i think) enrage or sum other state all at the same time
for 40 secs, however all 3 VERY rarely work and you usually end up just
blinding them - as for the other moves piston kicks is rather nice and
(i cant remember the stats which doesnt help, i know) deals a fair bit
of damage. Also due to the specials that dont require states to use
kungfu can work well if you develop your own tactics with it, however
it seems harder to find buffed clothing for kungfu and karate seems to
have the edge on me most of the time but i cant figure out why.



aikido is just a full blown tanking style, it has a few cool specials
like maki-otoshi, but a lot of the specials are more enhancements like
iron body which boosts melee and physical damage resistance i think
(but you get the idea). it does quite a bit of of damage with normal
attacks though and with enhancements, as i said, can become a total
tank if you get the tactics right. again, like kungfu i found it hard
to find good, higher level buffed clothinf for aikido as well.



as i said i dont know much about karate but it seems its specials rely
a lot on states, however karate seems to have the edge on kungfu, and
can hold its own against aikido, but any more than this i cant say on
karate because i dont know it well enough.



i hope this helps

Very nice info so far. Thanks.



But keep them coming folks.



>revolt_

Well, but thinking of it, the best combat class is Balista....

Hehe, I just defeated some lvl 50 Ballistas... as a level 43 Kung Fu
Master. You just need to know when to hit ctrl-space for hyperjump...



>revolt_

---

>revolt_ wrote:
 You just need to know when to hit ctrl-space for hyperjump...

>revolt_

---

Yeah, I agree with you fully about the hacker classes. I'd like to see
them more as a support class. One Ballista shouldn't be able to take on
a player several levels higher.



But till they fix this inbalance I'll keep hitting hyper-jump when I see purple flashes...



>revolt_

I prefer Kung-Fu myself. You have blinds, powerless moves, enrage,
confuse, stun, and nice combination of them all. Karate tends to be
Stun and that's it, and I haven't used Aikido though it has a good 30
seconds enrage,  a powerless, and with Zen Master will be able to
dish out some more damage.

i agree totally nano, i love kungfu too, i was just trying to give a
balanced view of all the styles, and there are benefits to all the
styles along with negatives to all of them too.



and i TOTALLY hear you antchrist and revolt, i h8 hackers being a front
line class and i move more towards antchrist's view of abolishing them,
cos as she said i never saw any1 in the films kill sum1 with a
lightning bolt or anything like that, just guns, martial arts, and some
cool effects is wat i saw, and i was loving it :robotvery-happy:

the 2 reasons hackers exists because u can't be an operator (they where the ones doing all the hacks mainly upgrading the guys on the inside) and because they needed a magic class like in other MMOs but it looks like they over powered them to making them be used more often than MA or guns in which it should be

i agree tha patcher is needed along with force multiplyer and guardian patcher, doctor, and corpseman....

but why do we need offensive hackers? this was supposed to be an MMO
that changed things, how about not having a 'spell casting' class for
once? and maybe putting a few of the offensive hacks into the pather,
eg, if u are offensive i see no need for stun, however, as a
force  multiplyer im screwed inside AND outside combat, y not give
it to the healing classes?



i just get annoyed sumtimes because it seems that the game hasnt been
totally thort thru that well and all the temp fixes are very well but i
crave a permanent balance because it slowly sux the fun out of the game
and i dont wanna get bored of it, but this thread is about the martial
arts so i'll shut up now, sorry for taking it on a tangent revolt

Well, no problem... but hey let's see where we get to...



What Martial Arts style do you use to fight against hackers? What's the best choice for that role? (Zen Master excluded... )



>revolt_

i cant find a MA style to fight them and have't use Zen Master yet (i was on hols wen it got leaked :robotsad



i would have theorised that aikido wud fight them best with its many
buffing special moves and maki otoshi being a powerless move and it
being the most damage dealing style but i could be wrong, certainly
kungfu can't seem to fight them, but then maybe im just bad @ fighting
hackers :robotsurprised: and i have used aikido in the past, but it was before hackers owned MxO and everything was way more balanced back then.

I think the problem is that you cant get off a special move before they
roll out then u gota stand there like a lemon for 5 secs waiting to
interlock them again, by which they have stunned you and, well etc,
etc.... :robotindifferent:

I've killed more than my share of hackers with the straightup hyperjump
method, that works especially well if you're in a team because they
think you're gone and begin to focus on the other guys, big
mistake.  Anyways on to the martial arts goodness of the original
post.  I'm level 44 currently and I've been doing something I
think quite a few poeple do, mixing the trees.  I load up peices
from the Karate Tree and peices from the Aikido tree, I haven't touched
kung-fu.  I load more heavily into the Aikido tree than the Karate
tree because I like the defensive style a bit more, but you do need to
offset that lack of damage with a few choice Karate special
moves.  Getting your loadout just right is really important, and
if you do it right you can get some nice chain combos of special moves
off, one of my favorites is Sky High Kick (reduce damage resistance)
Side-Kick Combo (Good damage, chance to stun) and followed up by Aerial
Takedown (**bleep** good damage and Powerless).  There are a few other
pretty devastating combos you can whip out with the lesser moves, like
ki-charged punch (requires staggered though) or Maki-Otoshi, or wrist
throw.  Really you just gotta get your feet wet and see what you
like and what works in combat.  The first combo I mentioned above
rips through enemy NPC's like nobody's business.  As for the
differences between the martial arts trees, kungfu is all about the
speed tactics, karate goes for power tactics, and aikido goes for grab
tactics.  Mixing the trees to make a blend (in my case power, and
grab) makes things very interesting.  As always buffed items like
the +9 MCT pants are awesome for these power builds, so are pants that
will give you bonuses to your preferred tactic (speed, power, grab, or
block).



Enjoy, and happy hunting.

some really good advice thanks ::smileyvery-happy: and i agree
with everything in there that i know about, apart from aikido being
lower damage, i would say it is the contrary and is slightly higher
damage than the others, however i havent played for a long time with
aikido *goes away to reevaluate aikido*



*returns for a small p.s.* ps kungfu i find has some good special move
combos all by itself which is why i like it a lot, ie; machine guns
fist after 1 round, then mis direct punch, then speed tactics untill
piston kicks appears, then you can do it all over again if u dont cause
powerless with piston kicks, if you do u skip machine gun fists im
only level 35 so i dont have experience past those moves in kungfu, but
thats seems to work for me. good to share this stuff and thanks for the
input i have read, i think it will help me a lot in-game :robothappy:
peace out

I just want to say that Karate wall moves are one of the coolest things in this game. :smileywink:

Doing the Trinity wall run. Bouncing off walls with a leaping side kick ... in bullet time. omg. LOL.:smileysurprised:

One of these days I'm going to capture it on film. I swear. :robotvery-happy:

Hey Rev,

Karate Fu is the best combo in my opinion mate. Good mixture of damage and state inducing moves.

Basically first off the bat has to be an Extreme Falling Kick followed by a Sky High sidekick. This hopefully causes enraged but more importantly definitely causes powerless. After that Misdirect Punch if they are enraged and you pretty much  have the fight sewn up. If you get a "state" (ie dazed etc) then one of the other specials also works well next. Personal fave has to be Wooden Dummy drill due to its stun regularity.

Of course if you are fighting hackers then you wont have the luxury of mixing all these moves as you will prob have to load up the VD trees.

Anyways, see you in there amigo. Hope you are well.

Phunky

PS. I am terrible at PvP so probably best not to pay any attention to me! Not tooooo bad in duels though.. Ki Summon and Evade Combat are your friends :smileywink:

It would seem as though my vast wisdom (lol w/e) is required again.



So you're looking for a good Martial Arts discipline to choose are
you?  Look no further for I have the information necessary for a
good decision.  Keep in mind in the end, the choice is yours and
yours alone.



Kung-Fu



Ahh the dreaded EFK (Extreme Falling Kick).  Kung-Fu's abilities
are based off your speed, or blue attacks.  For abilities such as
Piston Kicks, and Wooden Dummy Drill, the Dazed (blue attack) status
effect must be applied.  Extreme Falling Kick is an excellent
ability, which rolls very high with around a +25 or so mod.  It
tends to outroll just about anything.  Misdirect Punch is also
another great ability which causes Blinded, and has a 20-40% chance of
causing Powerless and Enraged.



Dim Mak strike is quite handy as it has the ability to stun which is
unwritten.  I believe the % chance of that is about 20% or
so.  Machine Gun Fist Combo is the lower version of the EFK with a
15 second powerless.  Wooden Dummy Drill is the most potent
ability in the tree with a base damage of around 500.



Suicidal Butterfly is also an excellent ability as it causes Confuse for 8 seconds.



Karate



Karate is the powerhouse of the MA trees.  It relies on your power
(red attacks) to stagger your opponent.  The abilities Ki Charged
Punch, and Ki Charged Foot Sweep require this status effect, with the
latter also requiring the Off-Balance effect.



Side Kick Combo is, in my opinion the most dangerous and potent
abilities in the MA tree.  It has a 35-40% chance of stunning your
opponent (for a -20 Combat Tactics drop) and outrolls everything with a
+30 mod.  It is the only thing combatting someone spamming EFK or
Punch Reverse Catch Slam.  Sky High Sidekick doesn't roll very
high, but also has a 20% chance of causing stun. 



Ki Charged Foot Sweep, which requires two status effects is very
difficult to pull off, but can be done.  With an Analyze Weakness
tool, I have done around 1500 damage with it. 



Aikido



Aikido is the "tank" of the MA trees.  It has Iron Body, which
gives you +20 toughness for 15 seconds I believe, and Aerial Takedown,
which grants +10 toughness for 30 seconds.  It's two Powerless
causing abilities are Maki-Otoshi, and Punch Reverse Catch Slam, the
former causing powerless for 15 seconds and the latter causing it for
18 seconds.



The Tomo Nage ability is extremely potent as it causes Enraged for 15
seconds I think, and does quite a bit of damage.  There is also
the Serene Calm ability, which heals 25 damage every second for 30
seconds (fuzzy times).



All in all the choice is yours to decide what discipline you wish to
use.  Both Aikido and Kung-Fu have Powerless enducing abilities,
while Karate has none yet rolls higher then the other two.  You
can mix and match to suit your needs as well.  I've found that
Karate is a useful back-up discipline, with either Aikido, or Kung-Fu
as your primary.



Hope that helps even more.  ^_^



EDIT - Sorry,  forgot to add that Aikido relies on the green (Grab attacks).  ^_^*

Message Edited by Dxy on 09-24-2005 01:11 AM

Kung Fu:

Dim Mak Strike requires Dazed ; causes Powerless(30%) and Stunned

Machinegun Fist Combo causes Powerless

Misdirect Punch causes Blinded, Dazed(20%) and Powerless(40%)

Pistol Kicks requires Dazed ; causes Powerless(40%)

Suicidal Butterfly causes Confused and Powerless(40%)

Triple Front Kick requires Dazed ; causes Powerless(40%) and Stunned

Extreme Falling Kick causes Disarmed, Enraged(40%) and Powerless

Wooden Dummy Drill requires Dazed ; causes Powerless(40%) and Stunned

Karate:

Ki Charged Punch requires Staggered ; causes Stunned(50%)

Sky High Sidekick lowers Physical Resistance by 25%

Sidekick Combo causes Enraged(20%) and Stunned(50%)

Swirling Ki Summon lowers Combat Tactics by 10

Machinegun Kick requires Staggered ; causes Powerless(40%) and Stunned(50%)

Berserker Attack is useless :smileywink:

Wrist Throw causes Stunned(50%)

Ki-Charged Foot Sweep requires Off-Balanced and Staggered ; causes Enraged(40%) Powerless(40%) and Stunned

Aikido:

Iron Body raises Toughness 20% and Force Combat 30%

Counter Throw requires Off-Balanced ; causes Confused and Disarmed(30%)

Serene Calm heals 600 damage over 30 seconds

Maki-Otoshi lowers Combat Tactics by 20(30%) and causes Powerless

Ki Burst causes Enraged(20%)

Aerial Takedown raises Toughness by 10% and causes Enraged(40%)

Punch Reversal Catch Slam causes Enraged(40%) and Powerless

Tomo Nage lowers Physical Resistance by 20%(40%) and causes Enraged

 LMAO when the fourth Matrix movie is all about hackers.  My
first character is Karate/Rifles  (for the most part), my second
character is a hacker with reason pushed all the way up. I hated
hackers so I started a character as one so I could learn the strength
and weaknesses. Somewhere along the line it grew on me and I love
it.  Hackers are basically weak, they have no combat tactics past
awakened, no health regain sitting or standing I might add, use a bunch
of IS and can get stunned or powerless easier than anyone else. 
When things  go bad, they go really bad... and in a hurry.



The devs already turned up the deflection on th archive bosses which
means hackers are useless. Hackers will probably be nerfed to the point
of being no fun and useless because of all the people crying about it.
Good players at Mara Central are'nt afraid of hackers they get a knife
thrower to stun them a MA ato interlock them andmake them powerless and
enraged then every available organization member uses ranged attacks
against  the poor powerless stunned hacker in interlock.



Kung Fu is too powerful because of extreme falling kick.....knife
thrower is way too powerful .......duelist is way overpoered (if they
know how to use it)..



LETS DO AWAY WITH ALL THE ABILITIES BECAUSE THEY ARE ALL OVERPOWERED
AND JUST HAVE BLUE, RED, GREEN AND YELLOW, LETS GET RID OF BUFFED
CLOTHING AND ATTRIBUTES ALSO

Sorry for my previous post,  it is off message. When hackers get bashed I feel the need to stick up for them.

Back on track......



My  first character I tried to level all three MA trees and all
Gunman trees. It got too expensive so I dropped most of them around lvl
31. Prior to that I would switch between Aikido, Karate and Kung Fu it
seemed to make a difference in the missions. This was before I had
buffed clothing or knew much about the bonus chart.



I liked the stigma of Kung Fu but for some reason I was having better
luck in missions with Karate so I kept leveling Karate. It has swirling
ki summon one of the few abilities you can use on an agent effectively.
Sidekick combo and ki charged punch roll high numbers constantly,
especially with tactics booster.



Karate has always worked for me against NPC's quite well it was only in
PVP and dueling I noticed a few things..<.Kung Fu people correct me
if Im wrong>......I have some trouble when I fight a Kung Fu
Grandmaster, they use Extreme Falling kick which causes powerlessness
then I try to roll out . But In combination with  Misdirected
Punch  you become powerless and enraged, then  your stuck in
interlock helplessly watching the other guy beat on you mercilessly.



 I have used health pills to stay alive long enough to win, but
I'd have to hear the opponent complain because I used them and they
didn't . So  I  stopped using  health pills because a
few dueling opponents cried and I died..... Now, unless in a tournament
with rules layed out beforehand, I  use every resource I have,
regardless what the opponent  thinks says or does.



 

When I started the game, I was an MA using noob fu, by the time I was
50 I was using a KFGM / Aikido Master w/ a dash of Karate, but after
learning more and more about the various MA trees and how to manipulate
IL, I completely dropped noob fu. Now I use a Aikido GM / Karate Master
load out, hits hard, major tank, can keep them ILed and powerless the
entire time. It used to be noob fu naturally rolled slightly higher
than the others, whereas Karate again - did the high dmg, and Aikido
was primarily tanking out. But after while it didn't really matter,
well, even when it sort of did it still didn't because there's always
ways around anything. If you're even going to think about using MA in
PvP, you are the tank, simple as that, you have no other use.
In a duel, with the current condition of IL, doesn't matter what style
you use, so long as you compile a build to have a routine that keeps
your opponent ILed, powerless and stunned, style means squat.