Are we really free?

Not less free than soldiers of any army in the world, I'd say, or in a brider sense, any employee in the world.

The bluepills aren't free because they are kept in a simulation they buy as reality, because they're fed lies about history and science, and because they're brainwashed by the Machines when required.
Sure, the redpills have their duties and worries, and are subordinate to a commando structure and hostile circumstances, but they're still free -- even if one gets captured in the Matrix, he's still free in this sense.

Well, actually not, but thats only because of the specific circumstances. Not the same why the bluepills "aren't free".

It seems that in the post-revolution era of The Matrix, more and more

redpills are jacking into The Matrix and fighting there, espically

Zionist.  Which begs the question, are we as redpills really

free?  Sure we can jack in and out of The Matrix at will now, and

we won't have to worry about finding a good broadcast spot etc. 

However, we still return to the simulated prison in which we used to be

a part of, to either fight other organization, to free, or reinsert

people etc.  So, with all of these activities and redpills in the

Post-Revolution era, one has to ask, are we really free? 

It seems that in the post-revolution era of The Matrix, more and more

redpills are jacking into The Matrix and fighting there, espically

Zionist.  Which begs the question, are we as redpills really

free?  Sure we can jack in and out of The Matrix at will now, and

we won't have to worry about finding a good broadcast spot etc. 

However, we still return to the simulated prison in which we used to be

a part of, to either fight other organization, to free, or reinsert

people etc.  So, with all of these activities and redpills in the

Post-Revolution era, one has to ask, are we really free? 

Let's see if I can put a face on this.  In-game, a huge PvP fight erupts.  To us, we think we're fighting for Merv or fighting for Mechs or whomever.  But, none of our "leaders" tell us that to do this (I suspect this is because of bandwidth limitations).  They don't tell us what clothes to wear or what to do.  In this way, we are free.  We're free to cause a ruckus and often are reported in the Sentinel (the bluepill pov).

But, once you venture into the dark side, you become someone's puppet.  Doing things you ought not do, to those who ought not know you're doing them.  You expected to act a certain way.  And, on-call at any moment.  In this case, you've jumped from one prison to the other.  But,  at least this time, the choice of who you serve is yours.

No one will ever be free.

Machines are not free because of logic. They can not fight logic.

Exiles are not free because of the simulation. They can not survive without it.

Humanity is not free because of death. It is unescapable.

ConfederateXP wrote:

It seems that in the post-revolution era of The Matrix, more and more

redpills are jacking into The Matrix and fighting there, espically

Zionist.  Which begs the question, are we as redpills really

free?  Sure we can jack in and out of The Matrix at will now, and

we won't have to worry about finding a good broadcast spot etc. 

However, we still return to the simulated prison in which we used to be

a part of, to either fight other organization, to free, or reinsert

people etc.  So, with all of these activities and redpills in the

Post-Revolution era, one has to ask, are we really free? 

Let's see if I can put a face on this.  In-game, a huge PvP fight erupts.  To us, we think we're fighting for Merv or fighting for Mechs or whomever.  But, none of our "leaders" tell us that to do this (I suspect this is because of bandwidth limitations).  They don't tell us what clothes to wear or what to do.  In this way, we are free.  We're free to cause a ruckus and often are reported in the Sentinel (the bluepill pov).

But, once you venture into the dark side, you become someone's puppet.  Doing things you ought not do, to those who ought not know you're doing them.  You expected to act a certain way.  And, on-call at any moment.  In this case, you've jumped from one prison to the other.  But,  at least this time, the choice of who you serve is yours.

That's exactly my point!

Very well put.

Interesting discussion so far, but let's just make it simple and go back to my first post here.

We can keep discussing what freedom really means, or how many conceptions of freedom there are -- but that wouldn't really meet the topic of this thread. An operative fighting for Zion isn't any less free than a warrior fighting for Gondor or a soldier for the US.
And that's only if limited to wars and confrontations -- there are other things in life we aren't free of (such as homework).

These people are forced (more or less) to fight, be it out of their beliefs or to avoid consequences from the side of their authorities.
I am forced to cram for school tests to get an appropriate grade, and that again for other purposes.
Soldiers can be also misled about their authorities' motivations. This way, they'll fight for a lie... Jack Bauer can be misled and unknowingly hindered by a CTU mole....

Well, we could go on like this forever. However, this discussion doesn't really have much to do with the Matrix, as the variety of these examples shows. It's all real people, living and acting in a real world, and moved by real circumstances.


How about bluepills? It's not just some circumstances they're misled about -- it's the very reality of their whole environment. What they perceive is nothing but a "dam TV show" fed into their brains from a computer server. What they think to know about science (micro and macro world, especially), or history, is mainly fabricated, and not really there.
Agents can take over their bodies and control their actions at any point, eventually leading them to death.
And probably, the Machines brainwash them in certain cases, like manipulating their memory or letting real experiences look like dreams.

Redpills live in the physical world. What they estimate real is real. What is virtual, they know is virtual. They are generally not controled and brainwashed by some superior force reigning their very world. Even if they are threatened by the Machines, those exist on the same reality level as themselves.

Now, probably the situation in the real world is more tense than in the Matrix. If the Matrix is like our world, I guess there are enough people there whose lifes suck, who are suppressed by authorities and are not free from duties. And looking at some areas of the city, I bet not everyone lives so comfortably and eats such delicious food as the Cypherites tend to preach. (Note: Cypher wished to be a rich and famous person when pulled back into the Matrix. Would he express that if it was to be sure anyway? No. He could have aswell ended up as a poor homeless loser, constantly freezing somewhere in dusty corners of the Barrens and reaching out for inedible "grub every day", totally useless and unrespected. He could have ended up worse than in the Real he tried to escape, actually).

However, life in the Real seems more tense and rougher in general. People generally live in worse circumstances, and have more duties to fulfill. So yea, guess they don't feel as free as they used to back in the good ol' Matrix days.



Sorry if my post is somewhat unorganized, I've just written it down passage after passage. Hope I brought my points across.

Freedom is whatever you make it out to be. The freedom your thinking of is the freedom that comes with TRUE anarchy which is basically just a world without any sort of rules (NOT going out and stealing, rapping, and murdering as it is so often depicted as)