so laz i would like to point out that those transcripts are soemones interpretation of what is being said in the film. with corrections already made i might add so the facts may not be completely accurate but i will check this against the subtitles on the DVD to make sure
Agent Smith an exile?
68 posts · 2006-06-12 23:00:43 to 2006-08-06 10:59:40
those transcript are correct that is what she said but you clear see the agent check his pulse and his all vitals stop on the hovercrafts monitor stating that eh did infact die. morpheus said that the body could no live without the mind yet he did not say that the mind couldnt live without the body.
omg i want editing powers
fowkes wrote:
Smith was holding all the keys.
With control of all the rsi's in the matrix smith had control. the machines could not destroy every trace of him for they would lose their power source. but what the machines knew that smith didnt was that when you combine to opposites they cancel each other out what was why smith was recreated and the reason they struck a deal with the one. they knew that that only one of the 2 could destroy the other but must inturn sacrifice their own life. sticking to this train of thought we can go with the causality theory, for every cause there is an effect, or more precisely put for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. this theory can be applied to not only actions but objects, elements and even humans themselves. think of neo and smith as both negative and positive electrons when one touches the other the cancel each other out
taking this into account you should now better understand my logic when i tell you that smith was not considered an exile but instead a threat
if you look up exile in a dictionary even here may come to the conclusion that perhaps smith considers himself an exile even though the facts in the film suggest otherwise
You're looking at it from some higher philosophical viewpoint. I'm looking at it from a very simplistic stance:
Smith was created by the machines to be an Agent. Smith was beaten. He became obsolete. Instead of accepting deletion (like the other 2 agents), he chose the Matrix. Anderson's death meant more to him than anything else.
How he came to be that way is "irrelevant", as he said himself. The fact is that he changed. He exceeded his original design. For you to imply that we was created/recreated to counter Neo is based purely on speculation because there is no undeniable proof. There's no proof of a lot of things because like most great works, the authors left it up to interpretation.
I applaud your standpoint and view it very respectfully because I know that you have interpreted your opinion based on what you've seen. But just as we're different people our interpretations are also very different.
I blame the Wachowskis and Keith. 
But the great thing about it is that despite our varying observations, we both came to be machinists. That means we have very similar beliefs but some that differ. Which is a good thing I think.
So you're right....I'm right and I'm wrong. /formalbow
fowkes wrote:
omg i want editing powersI second that!!
then we shall agree to disagree until i think of something else
fowkes wrote:
...morpheus said that the body could no live without the mind yet he did not say that the mind couldnt live without the body.
There is so much in these films that is actually not said and only implied, gotta love that Japanese influence.
BTW no edit button is for *$#¥+3*... even the Hyuzu forums have edit now... 
uh yeah 
i would guess so but smith would be more of a rouge agent then a typical exile
i would guess so but smith would be more of a rouge agent then a typical exileI would really like to know from both sides of the debate why you all think it is important whichever way one is to regard the Smith.
n-tell wrote:
Here is my take on Agent Smith and Smith.
Agent Smith: And independent Agent. As Viralis pointed out, he had personal goals while being an Agent(Morpheus scene). The other Agents even caught on to this as well, and had a sort of disgust with him(After Neo saved Trinity from the helicopter crash. The agents arrive and they say Order the strike in disgruntled manner. Then Smith goes on to say, they're not out yet. Instead of bringing his Agents with him, He goes alone and makes an attmept at Neo.)
Trinity must be the best kisser in the world, or Neo truly is the most uber geek computer nerd ever. But when Neo receives his Restore RSI from the Hovercraft and kills Agent Smith, Neo's purpose was not yet fulfilled.
The fact that Smith came back before Neo met with the architect, could make one think that Smith is an exile. Because Neo did nothing that other "ones" could not have done, by killing an Agent. However, Agent Smith did kill pre-uber Neo, fulfillin his purpose as an Agent. Than Neo killed Agent Smith, which is the one fulfilling his purpose as the One. This fact may be the reason why Smith returns. Trinity "removed" a variable from the architects equation, by breaking an absolute rule(death). The architect, in needing to balance the equation, performed a rule break as well. By re-inserting Smith back into the Matrix. In the monologue Smith gives to Neo at Debir Court, he does say perhaps, because he truly does not know what happened. The architect is a mathematician, not a magician, to re-insert Smith back in, he would at least need a derivitaive of Neo to make Smith. And Smith is still Smith, his mind did not change. He still has his memory, as Neo did, so he still felt like his purpose was to kill Neo. The difference is that this time, Smith had no boundaries, which is why he becomes to powerful for even the arctiect to control. How does he become too powerful, maybe by taking the Oracle's body. The Oracle said her purpose inside the Matrix was to "Unbalance the Equation". Once Smith had the power to unbalance everything, all he needed to overtake was Neo, to have the power to again return to the source, to become supreme overlord of everything. Neo was jacked into the source when Smith overtook his RSI, which then directly connected Smith to the Source. Then the Arc did what he does best, balance the equation, he killed Smith, causing a Matrix reset.
So after all this jargon talk, I am going to summarize my view on Smith.
Smith = Exile. Although, Smith was revived by the architect, but now not having boundaries, he was free to do what his mind wanted. Which in turn produced a threat of unforeseability by anyone. The Architect attempted to manipulate him, but because Smith was not directly connected to the source anymore, he could not. Yes, it is capable of being both an Exile and Having a purpose. He was revived to attmept to balance the equation again by killing Neo; but Smith Exiled from the source and wanted supreme power. Remember the saying "This is my world! MY WORLD!!!" while he was fighting Neo is part 3? Smith was purposefully reconstructed, but without being able to keep him in line, Smith was indeed an Exile.
Why is it imporant you ask? If Smith was indeed a exile, then all of his actions would have been driven by personal motives. Smith would have been a venture capitalist, instead of money, power and the destruction of the one. But if Smith was given a new purpose from the architect, then that means the architect is scared of Neo, and had to do something to thrall him.I would really like to know from both sides of the debate why you all think it is important whichever way one is to regard the Smith.
Here is my take on Agent Smith and Smith.
Agent Smith: And independent Agent. As Viralis pointed out, he had personal goals while being an Agent(Morpheus scene). The other Agents even caught on to this as well, and had a sort of disgust with him(After Neo saved Trinity from the helicopter crash. The agents arrive and they say Order the strike in disgruntled manner. Then Smith goes on to say, they're not out yet. Instead of bringing his Agents with him, He goes alone and makes an attmept at Neo.)
Trinity must be the best kisser in the world, or Neo truly is the most uber geek computer nerd ever. But when Neo receives his Restore RSI from the Hovercraft and kills Agent Smith, Neo's purpose was not yet fulfilled.
The fact that Smith came back before Neo met with the architect, could make one think that Smith is an exile. Because Neo did nothing that other "ones" could not have done, by killing an Agent. However, Agent Smith did kill pre-uber Neo, fulfillin his purpose as an Agent. Than Neo killed Agent Smith, which is the one fulfilling his purpose as the One. This fact may be the reason why Smith returns. Trinity "removed" a variable from the architects equation, by breaking an absolute rule(death). The architect, in needing to balance the equation, performed a rule break as well. By re-inserting Smith back into the Matrix. In the monologue Smith gives to Neo at Debir Court, he does say perhaps, because he truly does not know what happened. The architect is a mathematician, not a magician, to re-insert Smith back in, he would at least need a derivitaive of Neo to make Smith. And Smith is still Smith, his mind did not change. He still has his memory, as Neo did, so he still felt like his purpose was to kill Neo. The difference is that this time, Smith had no boundaries, which is why he becomes to powerful for even the arctiect to control. How does he become too powerful, maybe by taking the Oracle's body. The Oracle said her purpose inside the Matrix was to "Unbalance the Equation". Once Smith had the power to unbalance everything, all he needed to overtake was Neo, to have the power to again return to the source, to become supreme overlord of everything. Neo was jacked into the source when Smith overtook his RSI, which then directly connected Smith to the Source. Then the Arc did what he does best, balance the equation, he killed Smith, causing a Matrix reset.
So after all this jargon talk, I am going to summarize my view on Smith.
Smith = Exile. Although, Smith was revived by the architect, but now not having boundaries, he was free to do what his mind wanted. Which in turn produced a threat of unforeseability by anyone. The Architect attempted to manipulate him, but because Smith was not directly connected to the source anymore, he could not. Yes, it is capable of being both an Exile and Having a purpose. He was revived to attmept to balance the equation again by killing Neo; but Smith Exiled from the source and wanted supreme power. Remember the saying "This is my world! MY WORLD!!!" while he was fighting Neo is part 3? Smith was purposefully reconstructed, but without being able to keep him in line, Smith was indeed an Exile.
Than Neo killed Agent Smith, which is the one fulfilling his purpose as the One. from above....
I didn't write this correctly, Neo did not fulfill his purpose as the One. He just performed a executable task that could have been performed by any previous One.
I didn't write this correctly, Neo did not fulfill his purpose as the One. He just performed a executable task that could have been performed by any previous One.
Than Neo killed Agent Smith, which is the one fulfilling his purpose as the One. from above....
I didn't write this correctly, Neo did not fulfill his purpose as the One. He just performed a executable task that could have been performed by any previous One.
I didn't write this correctly, Neo did not fulfill his purpose as the One. He just performed a executable task that could have been performed by any previous One.
This has been a very good thread and an interesting read.
I belive Smith was an exile only by definition. In realityt I think he was somethign different from either an Agent or Exile and served noone. He was a Virus. He did not act as the system wanted him to and was takeing up resources nearly crashing the system.
I have seen the debate on weather the oracle knew smith to be the balance of the equation and that proved he was a construct of the architet. I disagree for 2 reasons
1) I do not believe the architect would or even could create somethingn as chaotic as the Virus Smith. The architect is Order. The Oracle deals in chaos and choice and I know the ORacle didnt create Smith.
2) The Oracle may have been looking at the situation at the time and interpretating Smith to be the balance. She was later take over by this virus. This event was much bigger than anything previous.
As far as the equation is concerned. if neo was 1 then smith was -x. 1+ -x= is an unknown. I've seen some good arguments stateing for the idea smith was made by the arcitect. I just have a gut feling he wasnt. Even if my gut feeling is wrong and smith was made by the arcitect then he was flawed i his programming.
Even if he was initially made by the arcitect he did not end up serveing the system. I have trouble believing he could build smith so shoddy. Instead I believe that smith never really died but simply pulled himself together. the experience altered his programming in such a way that he became the virus he was.
The oracle had time to escape yet she did not. you clearly see her give up herself to smith freely. her own choice. base this on her purpose and you will come to the conclusion that this was her attempt to unbalance the equation. yezss thats right there is an equation. if neo Is 1 then smith is -1 for he neos opposite, his negative as stated by the oracle., this here statment shall help you understand. and secondly it it was the architect who recreated smith it was only after the oracle gave herself to him that he began to impact the system. as you see only see the effect he has on the monitors of the hammer after he has absorbed the oracle. you know the oracle never tells you anything directly. she didsay hhe was the equation tryingto balance itsaelf out. and she did tell us that the architect was responsible for balancing the equation. put 2 and 2 together man.
My position is that the Smith Virus, had grown from Agent Smith as a result of the one hacking into his RSI. The problem I have with saying that Smith was "reborn" is in saying he is "dead". You easily see the agents taking over bluepill hosts in the films and even before they come to get you in this game, which is why I always go back to the (auto-recon) analogy. When you get killed in the game, are you "dead"? That being said, you also learn in Revolutions that to some degree the first film is just one layer of the truth. So yes, in terms of making a complete story Arc, Smith "dies" at the end of the Matrix. Once the movie gets the green light for the triliogy he is no longer "dead". Normally, something like this would *CENSORED* me off, however, the introduction of the Architect and the information he provides changed my perspective on the 'rules' completely. The Oracle itself was created from the machine logic, that is powered by radical methods of fusion... I think it is unfair to assume that the Architect is not creative with his mathematics because he himself is organized. Stripping the descriptions & it is Postive vs Negative all day here, neo is over-charged with love then Smith with hate. Just for the record, I do not suggest that the Smith virus was injected into the Matrix by the Arc, but rather the Program Smith was simply NOT deleted making him by definition an exile, and NOT deleted for a very specific purpose. Where previously, he would have been deleted after having been broken by bearing witness to those things that made no sense. The other agents replaced by 'upgrades' because they had not been hacked into by Neo, they ran like little girls. The Oracle /whispers to Trinity, Trinity Kisses Neo, Neo puts his RSI inside of Smith, Smith is denied the Source, Neo touches the Source, Smith takes the Oracles eyes, Neo sees the light that uses him as a trojan hoarse to hack into the virus and cancel them out. Now that's one helluva DEV Esploit ...
ouch my head hurts !
lemme think about this
In revoultions Smith says to sati: "So you must be the last Exile?" Wouldn't that mean he may not be a exile or he don't know if he is?
Sati entered the matrix after smiths rebirth so mith would be correct to assume that she is the last