krackins wrote:
IFact: Everything we know about history was givin to us by the machines and is therefore untrustworthy.
Agreed but in that case there is so much more the Machines could have done, to word history in such a way as to direct Human's own thoughts and perceptions to be more receptive of the Matrix and the processes and procedures employed within. It is stated at one point that the civilisation is a recreation of some 'peak' achieved in the 1990's, there is much to suggest that the history upto this point was genuine and true and really nothing to suggest otherwise. IMO the machines could have made alterations but didn't, either by choice deducing the changes were unnecessary as humans would not suspect anything unreal was going on, or because they simply lacked the necessary imagination to exploit this aspect of human life.
Whoever and however the sky was blackened it was a death sentance to all, humans and machines alike.
Very clearly this is not the case, life has continued after this point.
SO, whatever energy source the machines are using to keep humans alive could just as easily be used for the machines directly. There is no reason to bother with us at all. Energy isn't created, its just converted from a power source we are not told of (geo thermal maybe), to people food, to machine power. So why bother with it? Just use the original power source used to make human food!
The machines solution to the problem was to use humans as the powersource, and this has mutually sustained both races, however it is impossible for us to deduce what other options were explored or indeed if any were. I would suggest the machines found a logical and efficient solution and went with it, no need then to waste further resouces in that pursuit and/or they lacked the necessary imagination to do so.
Which leads us to the truth. The machines don't need us. The only reason we are here is that they are MORAL. They have used thier technology to help us stay alive as well as themselves. They have gone out of their way to try to make our continused existance meaningful. They don't even ask to be thanked.
Interesting I agree with all your supporting reasoning here but disagree entirely with your conclusion. The machines very purpose to be, is bound up with humans. The only reason they elected to accept the truce offered by Neo, for they gain absolutely nothing by it, has to mean they DO need us!
Did you ever think that maybe they invented all this war stuff because we humans just like to fight? "The first matrix was a paradise where no one suffered." That was a flop, so they made all this up so people like the op would have something fun to do!
This evidence is a clear indication of a lack or appreciation by the logical and unimaginative machines to the needs of the human psyche, and the very reason that by themselves, the machines see yet another matrix fail.
There is one last point I would like to make. Plugged in programs are not fully sentient. There are many many different programs all over the place, most just doing what they are supposed to do. When they are replaced, its no big deal, because they are not advanced enough. Some programs do become advanced over time, and these are the ones that choose to become exiles instead of being deleted. It seems to me that its not all that hard of a thing to do, so the machines must tolerate it, so long as the exile program doesn't make too much trouble.
There is no evidence the machines DO tolerate it or appreciate it, again maybe they lack the imagination or the ability to see a value where a defined process ceases its original task and pursues another. It has to be a form of Program evolution, the exiles stuggling tp break from their contraints and survive on their own.....a process that will inevitably, one day, produce a higher form of life? The closest analogy to an Exile is the RSI of a Redpill.....we are kindred and further example of the lifeform the future must belong to!
