6 posts · 2005-12-28 14:40:00 to 2005-12-29 13:16:00
Ntrails wrote:
there is an official thread for this junk.
Othinn1 wrote:
NullVector wrote:
The event which had Morpheus exploding code bombs drew a line. The bombs were a way of "freaking out" bluepills, freeing minds, right? This threatend the treaty Neo generated from his sacrifice so Morpheus had to be stopped. Wouldn't "effects" which occur around hacking have the same affect on bluepills? I don't know about you but if I saw Logic Canon, as a bluepill, I would have to question a lot of things yet it is ok for hundreds of redpills to show these displays of power all the time with no repercussion as that exacted on Morpheus for exploding code bombs. This shows no continuity.
The fact is, both the Hacker/Coder abilities and the code bombs would freak out bluepills. According to an old article, the Machines are rather worried about the large amount of redpills in the Matrix performing feats that bend or break the rules. A few issues of the Sentinel show that the bluepills are already noticing that something odd is going on, such as the massive increase in martial arts battles but no dramatic increase in people being sent to hospitals. But also keep in mind that many will just place some mundane explanation on what they see. For example, most people see redpills as a fad or subculture. So not everyone will react in the same way.
Message Edited by Othinn1 on 12-29-2005 09:58 AM
Keeping within the parameters of my explaination, there is a difference between an increase in MA fights with no noticible increase of hospital visitors or someone squating at a phone booth and typing on an "imaginary" keyboard and seeing someone shoot lighting bolts or create a person (simulacra) out of thin air, wouldn't you agree? I can see it now,
Someone shouts, "hey, look at that dood shooting lighiting out of his hands!"
Stranger2: "those crazy kids, what will they think of next?"
Stranger3: "I saw that the other day, apparently it has something to do with clubbing."
Stranger4: "that's normal, solar flares, move along.."
Point is, you can't have it both ways. I agree with a previous poster stating that if the "fireworks" of hacking (and other classes for that matter) were toned down or removed totally, there would be far fewer complaints.
BTW if you have any other hypothetical "stranger" comments, please feel free :smileyvery-happy:
Othinn1 wrote:
NullVector wrote:
Othinn1 wrote:
NullVector wrote:
The event which had Morpheus exploding code bombs drew a line. The bombs were a way of "freaking out" bluepills, freeing minds, right? This threatend the treaty Neo generated from his sacrifice so Morpheus had to be stopped. Wouldn't "effects" which occur around hacking have the same affect on bluepills? I don't know about you but if I saw Logic Canon, as a bluepill, I would have to question a lot of things yet it is ok for hundreds of redpills to show these displays of power all the time with no repercussion as that exacted on Morpheus for exploding code bombs. This shows no continuity.
The fact is, both the Hacker/Coder abilities and the code bombs would freak out bluepills. According to an old article, the Machines are rather worried about the large amount of redpills in the Matrix performing feats that bend or break the rules. A few issues of the Sentinel show that the bluepills are already noticing that something odd is going on, such as the massive increase in martial arts battles but no dramatic increase in people being sent to hospitals. But also keep in mind that many will just place some mundane explanation on what they see. For example, most people see redpills as a fad or subculture. So not everyone will react in the same way.
Message Edited by Othinn1 on 12-29-200509:58 AM
Keeping within the parameters of my explanation, there is a difference between an increase in MA fights with no noticible increase of hospital visitors or someone squating at a phone booth and typing on an "imaginary" keyboard and seeing someone shoot lighting bolts or create a person (simulacra) out of thin air, wouldn't you agree?
But you realize that, even without the Hacker/Coder abilities, the increased number of redpills means that there's a higher chance that bluepills will witness reality bending feats, such as hyperjumping.
But even that can have a "mundane" explanation attributed to it. I recall one of the pre-release Sentinel issues saying something about redpills hyperjumping, and someone saying that they simply had wires attached to them.
Not everyone will deny it, I agree. But people do have ways of explaining things in terms they'll understand (if they didn't, then there wouldn't be conspiracy theorists). And I doubt the Machines would be all right with redpills doing what they do best, even without the Hacker/Coder abilities. And surely many people noticed the flying man in a black trenchcoat who could stop bullets dead in their tracks. Bluepills realizing that something is wrong with reality is part of the story.
Finally, I'd just like to make it clear that I have no problem with any Hacker/Coder animation and balance changes that I'm sure will happen in the future. I'm not defending the animations (though I honestly have no problem with them). I'm defending the concept, which I personally feel makes sense.
Edit: I just remembered one Sentinel issue where Morpheus was described as using "roman candles" in his speeches, which is either a reference to the incomplete RSI of Neo that he would display, or the fact that he would suddenly start to expel code and green lightning bolts from his body. Did they ever explain why Morpheus had green code and lightning around him during his speeches?
Message Edited by Othinn1 on 12-29-2005 10:40 AM
ArtherEld wrote:
NullVector wrote:
Again, the question that I ask you and the question that NO one has answered: should Matrix Online be allowed to take the rabit hole deeper? Yes, this game is a continuation of the movies. But even the movies offer new elements that weren't in the chapter before it. (Blooddrunks in "Reloaded" for one). Shouldn't MxO be allowed to offer new elements to the Matrix experience, or should MxO be confined to the rules set by the movies? It's a valid question and it's at the core of this argument.
I'll answer it - Yes
But.. (you knew that was coming :smileyhappy: ) there has to be a line as to how far off the original premise they dig. For instance, if they introduced a new class, lets say, Giant Toaster class, which is feasible because afterall this is a computer generated world and theoretically if we can create giant fly monsters we can create a Giant Toaster class. This should be acceptable right?
The question is not, "should they (devs) be allowed to offer new elements" because honestly, they can do what they want, it's theirs, the questions should be, how much is to much?
The event which had Morpheus exploding code bombs drew a line. The bombs were a way of "freaking out" bluepills, freeing minds, right? This threatend the treaty Neo generated from his sacrifice so Morpheus had to be stopped. Wouldn't "effects" which occur around hacking have the same affect on bluepills? I don't know about you but if I saw Logic Canon, as a bluepill, I would have to question a lot of things yet it is ok for hundreds of redpills to show these displays of power all the time with no repercussion as that exacted on Morpheus for exploding code bombs. This shows no continuity.
If you bought the game you have a certain expectation as to what it should be like and most of the time this expectation would be based on the movies. Granted, not everyones expectations will be met but, there does exist a boundary which when crossed be the game developers, leads to people not feeling like they are in The Matrix, which, I think, is what it is about. To the people who dont think hacking is right to one degree or another, the line has been crossed.
This sounded better in my head but, I think I got my point across, flame away...
Again you're missing the point that we actually do agree on some major points here. And your entire post here only amounts to those points that both you and I agree on:
Hackers are overpowered? Yes.
Hacker animations are too wild and colorful? Yes.
But what your post does not address is the hacker concept. Again I have a feeling that if the devs fixed the hackers' animations and their overpowered nature, you and others would have barely anything to argue about.
All I'm saying is deal with the real issue here.
Ok, I am answering your question; You wrote the green paragraph remember? You clearly state this is the core argument and a valid question. I am answering it in reference to the OP and use hacking and "fireworks" as examples.
ArtherEld wrote:
NullVector wrote:
Again, the question that I ask you and the question that NO one has answered: should Matrix Online be allowed to take the rabit hole deeper? Yes, this game is a continuation of the movies. But even the movies offer new elements that weren't in the chapter before it. (Blooddrunks in "Reloaded" for one). Shouldn't MxO be allowed to offer new elements to the Matrix experience, or should MxO be confined to the rules set by the movies? It's a valid question and it's at the core of this argument.
I'll answer it - Yes
But.. (you knew that was coming :smileyhappy: ) there has to be a line as to how far off the original premise they dig. For instance, if they introduced a new class, lets say, Giant Toaster class, which is feasible because afterall this is a computer generated world and theoretically if we can create giant fly monsters we can create a Giant Toaster class. This should be acceptable right?
The question is not, "should they (devs) be allowed to offer new elements" because honestly, they can do what they want, it's theirs, the questions should be, how much is to much?
The event which had Morpheus exploding code bombs drew a line. The bombs were a way of "freaking out" bluepills, freeing minds, right? This threatend the treaty Neo generated from his sacrifice so Morpheus had to be stopped. Wouldn't "effects" which occur around hacking have the same affect on bluepills? I don't know about you but if I saw Logic Canon, as a bluepill, I would have to question a lot of things yet it is ok for hundreds of redpills to show these displays of power all the time with no repercussion as that exacted on Morpheus for exploding code bombs. This shows no continuity.
If you bought the game you have a certain expectation as to what it should be like and most of the time this expectation would be based on the movies. Granted, not everyones expectations will be met but, there does exist a boundary which when crossed be the game developers, leads to people not feeling like they are in The Matrix, which, I think, is what it is about. To the people who dont think hacking is right to one degree or another, the line has been crossed.
This sounded better in my head but, I think I got my point across, flame away...
Again you're missing the point that we actually do agree on some major points here. And your entire post here only amounts to those points that both you and I agree on:
Hackers are overpowered? Yes.
Hacker animations are too wild and colorful? Yes.
But what your post does not address is the hacker concept. Again I have a feeling that if the devs fixed the hackers' animations and their overpowered nature, you and others would have barely anything to argue about.
All I'm saying is deal with the real issue here.
I'm not trying to address the "hacker concept" but, the concept of why people use the excuse "if it's not in the movie then it's not matrix."
All I'm saying is read the whole post.